Audio content delivery

[JJB70]

The weird thing about 4K UHD is that it sometimes feels like the software owners aren't really that hot on the disc format either. I sometimes feel like they can't make up their mind between a sub-optimal UHD streaming service or high quality discs or something else.

If looking at regular blu-rays I see a parallel with high-res music in that while there are some superb restorations and HD transfers there are also a lot of releases that are no better than the regular DVD release despite the extra definition.

 

[sergeauckland]

The weird thing about 4K UHD is that it sometimes feels like the software owners aren't really that hot on the disc format either. I sometimes feel like they can't make up their mind between a sub-optimal UHD streaming service or high quality discs or something else.

If looking at regular blu-rays I see a parallel with high-res music in that while there are some superb restorations and HD transfers there are also a lot of releases that are no better than the regular DVD release despite the extra definition.

Indeed, if by going to 4k that brings out the noise and grain in the original film print, or VTR noise, then it's not worth having.
I've maintained for years that 16/44.1 is as good as it needs to be, as anything more either in sample rate or bit depth just brings out traffic noise, aircon noise, mic amp noise, SMPS noise and anything else not related to the music. And yet, some persist in saying they hear improvements. Of what? A studio even with NC10 criteria when empty won't be NC10 when full of orchestral players shuffling their feet or knocking into music stands, or even breathing! Guitar amps all produce more hum than NC10, so where's the need for HD? Just do RBCD properly.

S

 

[JJB70]

My interest in high-res is not because I believe in high-res per se, I think RBCD is all we need, but rather because if some of the labels fulfil their promise and produce improved masters and de-crappify the mess they've made of CDs then that would interest me. Unfortunately a lot of the high-res files are just upsampled from the existing masters and of course the elephant in the room is that there is no reason whatsoever why they couldn't produce improved versions as regular RBCD releases.

On HD and UHD it is true that often the high definition highlights the flaws in the original frames and makes them more noticeable. However, I will say that I do like my 4K UHD disc of Bridge on the River Kwai. Yes, it is quite grainy, and you notice the focus issues more but I also think it is an example of a label taking a restoration seriously and it does offer a much better experience than the DVD.

 

[Sal1950]

If looking at regular blu-rays I see a parallel with high-res music in that while there are some superb restorations and HD transfers there are also a lot of releases that are no better than the regular DVD release despite the extra definition.

That's often a case of garbage in / garbage out, the source has to be good enough to show the difference between DVD and BD.
Then when we get to BD vs UHD, visual differences are quite small, requiring a top quality source and a very large screen to appreciate any improvements. Probably the addition of HDR to 4k is what makes any differences easier to see and gives the average consumer any value.
The video industry has rapidly approached the point where the OMG jump in quality that was seen from SD to HD is near the end of the road. Real improvements, like in audio electronics, are going to be very small and hard to come by.
4K, like high res audio, is a hard sell to consumers.
Good luck convincing people they need 8K.

 

[JJB70]

The TV manufacturers are very adept at producing material for showing on display models in shops which makes people stop and drop their jaws in wonder at how splendid UHD is. The fact that none of the movies and TV shows they want to watch get anywhere close to that effect hits later by which point they've handed over their money. Not that I'm a cynic or anything. Some "HD" transfers were shameless.

 

[agtp]

I bought a bunch of them from Amazon. Some came in conditions though where I had to wear gloves to handle.

I wear gloves with every used CD I purchase. I don’t open the package without gloves on first. You just never know.

I remove the artwork, set aside the CD and trash the case. I then wipe the art, replace with a new case, then clean the CD under running water with a final rinse in distilled water. Yes, I’m a clean-freak.

I remember you mentioning that you don’t put on headphones at a show, because you don’t know where they’ve been. I’m the same way.

 

[agtp]

and dirty CDs and dirty jewel cases can be cleaned very easily with some rubbing alcohol or just lukewarm water.

I would not recommend using alcohol of any kind, it’s way too strong to use on a CD. It will strip the silkscreening right off. Ask me how I know. I got a little on a rare, OOP, expensive CD and the printing started falling off everywhere. Soapy water or just plain water should be fine.

 

[agtp]

One other observation, is that by buying used, one can often get the original CD, not the later (and usually worse) remaster. That's something of a lottery, but I'm pleasantly surprised when it happens.

S.

Definitely does not have to be a lottery type situation. Every early CD I purchase, I know exactly which mastering it is and condition before buying.

Learn to use the information on the CD (UPC, year, label, etc.), search the DR Database, and you can easily find the exact mastering you want.

 

[sergeauckland]

Definitely does not have to be a lottery type situation. Every early CD I purchase, I know exactly which mastering it is and condition before buying.

Learn to use the information on the CD (UPC, year, label, etc.), search the DR Database, and you can easily find the exact mastering you want.

Agreed it's possible, but when I buy used from Amazon, which is the usual way I get CDs, I don't know what I'm getting until it arrives.

S

 

[Thomas savage]

Agreed it's possible, but when I buy used from Amazon, which is the usual way I get CDs, I don't know what I'm getting until it arrives.

S

Normally there’s at least the year it was issued , I take that and look up on disogs? Can’t remember the site right now. Gives you a good idea but not full proof.

 

[derp1n]

I wear gloves with every used CD I purchase. I don’t open the package without gloves on first. You just never know.

I remove the artwork, set aside the CD and trash the case. I then wipe the art, replace with a new case, then clean the CD under running water with a final rinse in distilled water. Yes, I’m a clean-freak.

I remember you mentioning that you don’t put on headphones at a show, because you don’t know where they’ve been. I’m the same way.

Do you need help?

 

[Thomas savage]

Do you need help?

I need help , I definitely need a clean freak round my house.

 

[graz_lag]

... I take that and look up on disogs? Can’t remember the site right now. Gives you a good idea but not full proof.

https://www.discogs.com/

 

[SIY]

Mass production CDs may be falling away, but small production seems to be alive and well. I have in front of me recent CD purchases of John Statz, Peter Mulvey, Bill Carter, Gabe Dixon, John Mayall, Howard Levy, Greg Brown, and LJ Slavin- what they all have in common was purchase directly from the artist after a show over the past year or so (and autographed!). These guys are getting small duplicators to do runs of a couple hundred at a time, almost like Print On Demand books.

 

[Krunok]

Mass production CDs may be falling away, but small production seems to be alive and well. I have in front of me recent CD purchases of John Statz, Peter Mulvey, Bill Carter, Gabe Dixon, John Mayall, Howard Levy, Greg Brown, and LJ Slavin- what they all have in common was purchase directly from the artist after a show over the past year or so (and autographed!). These guys are getting small duplicators to do runs of a couple hundred at a time, almost like Print On Demand books.

I'm glad to hear that! Are that recordings of the shows or studio recordings?

 

[SIY]

Studio stuff (with a loose definition of "studio" in some cases).

It would be cool if recordings of the shows were available...

 

[andymok]

Indeed, if by going to 4k that brings out the noise and grain in the original film print, or VTR noise, then it's not worth having.
I've maintained for years that 16/44.1 is as good as it needs to be, as anything more either in sample rate or bit depth just brings out traffic noise, aircon noise, mic amp noise, SMPS noise and anything else not related to the music. And yet, some persist in saying they hear improvements. Of what? A studio even with NC10 criteria when empty won't be NC10 when full of orchestral players shuffling their feet or knocking into music stands, or even breathing! Guitar amps all produce more hum than NC10, so where's the need for HD? Just do RBCD properly.

S

Well at least they have a reason to do it better.

BTW Skywalker's Studio is probably the quietest studio (I heard). It means nothing to us, so what for?

 

[tmtomh]

I would not recommend using alcohol of any kind, it’s way too strong to use on a CD. It will strip the silkscreening right off. Ask me how I know. I got a little on a rare, OOP, expensive CD and the printing started falling off everywhere. Soapy water or just plain water should be fine.

Yes, I should have clarified: Isopropyl alcohol on the play side only. The label side is silkscreened ink, with I believe a thin lacquer layer beneath that. Lacquer is quite fragile and alcohol-soluble (I think). In fact, I'd say the label side of CD should never get anything other than a gentle wipe with a microfiber cloth.

 

[Don Hills]

All modern CDs are UV cured lacquer and inks, resistant to isopropyl alcohol. Very early CDs (the first few years of production) might be more fragile.
In my own experience, ordinary dish (hand) washing detergent in warm water works fine on both sides of the disc. Tap water is fine, you don't need distilled. Blot dry with good quality paper towels to avoid possible watermarks from droplets left to dry.

 

[Thomas savage]

All modern CDs are UV cured lacquer and inks, resistant to isopropyl alcohol. Very early CDs (the first few years of production) might be more fragile.
In my own experience, ordinary dish (hand) washing detergent in warm water works fine on both sides of the disc. Tap water is fine, you don't need distilled. Blot dry with good quality paper towels to avoid possible watermarks from droplets left to dry.

This is what I do.