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Krunok

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Complete with watermark that traces it straight back to him..?

"Back to him"? Don't be naive.. usually you trace it to a larger farm of servers in God knows which country and there you have a company running it which is not willing to cooperate, and even if you find a way to twist its hand it usually turns out that the bills are paid by some off-shore small company..

Again, don't be naive. And once again I remind you that tracing VPN connections is nothing similar you are seeing in movies. Been there, done that..
 

svart-hvitt

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When the same corporate interests control the platform AND the content [we are close to this with Apple] it is easy. In principle, it's similar to paid-for sporting events on TV. The un-hackable player reports your listening of un-crackable media files to the authorization server and you get a bill. Simple.

While it might prove possible to crack some of these DRM techniques, it will become more and more difficult with the passage of time. The more VLSI used in the playback kit, the harder it becomes to hack. And as soon as the hardware becomes sufficiently robust, the media companies announce that new releases will only be in MQA protected format (gosh, did I really say that?) and, soon after that, they turn off the ability of the kit to play media that is NOT DRM-signed.

Watch my lips people: do all you can now, today, to fight the scourge of DRM and resist its adoption. While it might prove possible for the technologically elite to mitigate its effects, for John Doe it will be like wearing media handcuffs.

Once again it seems like the popularest culture is better able to tell a complex story than any university professor or genius engineer. «Fight the scourge of DRM»? Here is our freedom fighter ;)

220px-Sarah_Connor_%28Linda_Hamilton%29.jpg
 

Pluto

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Fight the scourge of DRM
YES! And here's the logic: stuff like DRM is too UNimportant for most politicians to care about*. So the more difficult (i.e. expensive) it is made to implement and control, the less inclined the media conglomerates will be to head in that direction. Like politicians, the media bosses are mainly interested in their balance sheets for the foreseeable future i.e. “how much bonus do I get next year? Why should I implement a technology that might get my successor's successor a big bonus, not me!”

* Should DRM ever become a real electoral issue (i.e. the electorate makes clear that it will not vote for a party that supports legally-mandated DRM), the politicians will drop it like a stone.
 

svart-hvitt

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YES! And here's the logic: stuff like DRM is too UNimportant for most politicians to care about*. So the more difficult (i.e. expensive) it is made to implement and control, the less inclined the media conglomerates will be to head in that direction. Like politicians, the media bosses are mainly interested in their balance sheets for the foreseeable future i.e. “how much bonus do I get next year? Why should I implement a technology that might get my successor's successor a big bonus, not me!”

* Should DRM ever become a real electoral issue (i.e. the electorate makes clear that it will not vote for a party that supports legally-mandated DRM), the politicians will drop it like a stone.

Do you have something like this in mind?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party
 
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Cosmik

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"Back to him"? Don't be naive.. usually you trace it to a larger farm of servers in God knows which country and there you have a company running it which is not willing to cooperate, and even if you find a way to twist its hand it usually turns out that the bills are paid by some off-shore small company..

Again, don't be naive. And once again I remind you that tracing VPN connections is nothing similar you are seeing in movies. Been there, done that..
If everything is so hackable, please don't launch the nukes just yet! I would like to hear what's going on in 10 Downing Street if you could arrange it. And if you could change the lights to green for me as I'm driving, I'd like to know how to do that. Could you place a million quid in my bank account for me? Thanks! :)
 

Krunok

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* Should DRM ever become a real electoral issue (i.e. the electorate makes clear that it will not vote for a party that supports legally-mandated DRM), the politicians will drop it like a stone.

That's not how politics work. EVERY politican and EVERY parts already support leggaly-mandated DRM.

Btw, do you really think that average Joe from da hood cares about DRM? :D
 

Krunok

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If everything is so hackable, please don't launch the nukes just yet! I would like to hear what's going on in 10 Downing Street if you could arrange it. And if you could change the lights to green for me as I'm driving, I'd like to know how to do that. Could you place a million quid in my bank account for me? Thanks! :)

I never said "everything is so hackable", I said you can't deploy DRM that cannot be easilly bypassed.

I take it from this you're short of arguments so I'll finish this discussion at this point. ;)
 

Pluto

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Do you have something like this in mind? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party
While I broadly support the ten common policies listed, I rather dislike the terminology "pirate party" which has pre-loaded connotations of theft. I have NO desire to steal digital works of art, nor to pass them on to third parties with or without profit to myself. I want to pay to support the artists, not corporations. I also insist on my right to store and manipulate the data in a manner of my choosing.
 

sergeauckland

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OFFICER: Do you have receipts of your stored music?

MR. AUCKLAND: What? Of course not!

OFFICER: Lock him up!

Actually, I do. I keep all receipts for downloaded music and CDs and LPs I've bought on-line. Also, I keep all my physical CDs and LPs, which accounts for those I've bought for cash at record fairs and charity shops.

One of the benefits of being somewhat anal-retentive.

;)

S.
 

Pluto

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EVERY politican and EVERY parts already support legally-mandated DRM
Only until that policy starts costing them votes. Then you'll see the leopard change its spots! Politicians do learn, but slowly.

do you really think that average Joe from da hood cares about DRM?
Not until it stops him from transferring songs to his bud.

Unlike you, I believe that tomorrow's DRM will be largely uncrackable.
 
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Cosmik

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I never said "everything is so hackable", I said you can't deploy DRM that cannot be easilly bypassed.
To be precise you said:
Krunok said:
Nobody can design a chip (or a system) that is doing any kind of authorisation that cannot be bypassed in one way or another. There are no unpenetrable armors, no locks that cannot be picked, no software protection systems that cannot be hacked.

Sounds pretty much like "everything is hackable" without caveats to me ;)
 

Krunok

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To be precise you said:


Sounds pretty much like "everything is hackable" without caveats to me ;)

Yes, everything can be hacked. And although I never said I am the one who can hack everything you somehow concluded I did, so you asked me to hack bank and traffic control system. Kind of childish behaviour, wouldn't you say? Not to mention flawed logic which says: if you can't hack everything then your statement that everything can be hacked is obviously wrong. Grow up, only kids are reasoning that way.. ;)
 
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Cosmik

Cosmik

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Yes, everything can be hacked. And although I never said I am the one who can hack everything you somehow concluded I did, so you asked me to hack bank and traffic control system. Kind of childish behaviour, wouldn't you say? Not to mention flawed logic which says: if you can't hack everything then your statement that everything can be hacked is obviously wrong. Grow up, only kids are reasoning that way.. ;)
Sorry for having a sense of humour. Merry Christmas.
 

sergeauckland

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While I broadly support the ten common policies listed, I rather dislike the terminology "pirate party" which has pre-loaded connotations of theft. I have NO desire to steal digital works of art, nor to pass them on to third parties with or without profit to myself. I want to pay to support the artists, not corporations. I also insist on my right to store and manipulate the data in a manner of my choosing.

This to me is the main reason I still buy physical media, mostly CDs, but a few LPs as well. I can do what I want with those, play them, rip them or give them away, leave them to my children. With streaming, cloud-based storage or whatever, I can only do what the holder of the data lets me do, and for only as long as they want to let me.

I have mixed feelings about Kindle books, as although the text is on my device, the 'permission' to read it could be removed at any time, and presumably the Kindle App would block it. If any particular book is something I would be upset about losing, I buy a printed copy.

S.
 

maverickronin

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I have mixed feelings about Kindle books, as although the text is on my device, the 'permission' to read it could be removed at any time, and presumably the Kindle App would block it. If any particular book is something I would be upset about losing, I buy a printed copy.

It's dead simple to strip the DRM of Kindle books. My Kindle issn't even linked to my Amazon account. I download the books with the Kindle desktop app, pop them into Calibre, and side load them onto my Kindle.
 

Krunok

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. I want to pay to support the artists, not corporations.

Corporates are doing the marketing and distribution work and they need to be payed for that. How much, that is another issue.

I also insist on my right to store and manipulate the data in a manner of my choosing.

Probably most of us do, but that technically further complicates DRM protection.
 

Pluto

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All the above bickering demonstrates why we should fight tooth and nail to prevent the media industries from forcing DRM upon us, or allowing it to slip in through the back door, unnoticed. Rest assured, DRM will arrive by stealth unless it's backed by politicians, and it's for us – the media users – to ensure that politicians cannot impose this at the behest and lobbying of the media moguls, without significant loss of support from the voting public.

Data democracy is a significant future issue, only most voters don't yet know it.
 

Hugo9000

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I suppose I must have around 3000 CDs now. Once the number reached 100 (probably around the year 1990 or so), I quit counting. I just did a quick count of the CDs shelved by my desk, and that was over 500, so looking at the other shelves, I'd say 3000 or more total. I'd hate to be a young person with my tastes in music, as it would be impossible to amass this collection, as so many of these CDs are out of print. Nearly all of my CDs are classical, with a fair amount of opera music (I have fewer than 100 pop/rock/jazz CDs). So I represent a tiny percentage of a tiny percentage of the population, listening to unpopular music and primarily using physical media.

Something like Spotify is handy for music discovery and casual listening, or for somewhere like work or a vacation where it's not possible to have my physical collection at my fingertips. But I'd hate to have to rely on music labels, streaming services, ISPs, etc. to maintain availability. Right now, I'm okay as long as there is power and this house doesn't burn to the ground, taking my collection with it. Even if the rest of the world continues to move away from physical media, the persistence of the LP reassures me that there will be some form of disc player that will have backwards-compatibility with the CD, at least for the rest of my lifetime.

The compact disc ushered in musical freedom for me. Prior to that, music lovers were at the whim of the labels and the crummy brick and mortar "record stores" as far as availability, and the purchase options of LP and cassette both deteriorated with each use, with no assurance that a copy could be replaced when it became unplayable. The advent of the CD also provided incentive for the record companies to open the vaults. Now it appears that in some ways things may go back to the old ways, except that instead of unstable and compromised physical media, it will be compromised digital files, and the vagaries of the cloud rather than brick and mortar.
 
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hvbias

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Just speaking for myself here is why I am sticking with files (majority created from CD, though I do downloads as well):

-full control over the content. On several occasions I have seen TV shows and music being taken down from streaming services because the contracts changed
-knowing exactly which mastering I am listening to. With classical sometimes it takes some digging to find a particular mastering that wasn't processed too much by the mastering engineers
-I like having the booklets that I can reference like recording dates, the rest of their discography (often included in the back of booklets whereas online these are hosted on fan pages that frequently go down, owner passes away, loses interest and the hosting/domain expires, etc)

I have the vast amount of music I already want to listen to (more than enough for my lifetime and then some) though I of course buy new releases as well. I hope the classical labels continue to give us physical product in the form of CDs, but if it goes download only I don't mind that either since I have full control of music once it is on my server. If it goes streaming only I'll be less enthusiastic but I will accommodate.

Apps like Foobar or JRiver that have convolution engines will always be around. I just don't see stuff like cell phones entirely replacing computers for them not to exist.
 
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