Audio Coffee, photography , other hobbies and the Audiophile mindset

[FrantzM]

Hi

I went to Italy last year and discovered Coffee. I wasn’t a coffee drinker until then … I am now an aficionado. So I am learning about coffee, bought a good grinder, an espresso machine, a French press and even a Turkish coffee pot and finally a Nesprresso machine.. I am reading about coffee, experimenting and reading reviews and … the reviews are … just like Audiophile reviews and the coffee-philes? Just like Audiophiles.

There is the same mystique, the same bias… In full sight the “shots’ from the $3000 espresso machines are “clearly” superior to those from a $500 machines. Just like the $30k amps is superior to the lowly $3000 amp …

Please do contribute. I have much to say about my approach to hobbies and did find it very similar to that of many fellow audiophiles. Sample size is certainly small but forum gives you an idea of the mindset..
I came to this essay in Aeon. A little long but an interesting read.
CLICK HERE

 

[Don Hills]

... bought a good grinder, an espresso machine, a French press and even a Turkish coffee pot and finally a Nesprresso machine.. ...

 

[Soniclife]

Lots off crossover similarities between coffee and hifi behaviours, but coffee gadgets stay closer to sane prices than hifi does. I'm sure this is human behaviour, it looks like a subset of male behaviour a lot of time, but there are women discussing things that interest them in similar ways so it just looks nuts to people that are not interested in the same things we obsess about.

Blind testing coffee is possible, e.g.
https://www.home-barista.com/store-coffee-in-freezer.html

Reading this years ago simplified my life loads, didn't need to roast at home any more for starters.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Source material matters, as in "hifi". Buy beans that have been roast locally. Grind at home. Fresh is better. Filter or equivalent suffices to extract the taste.

 

[Cosmik]

I came to this essay in Aeon. A little long but an interesting read.
CLICK HERE

It's a good article, suggesting that automation and machines can be the superior way of producing anything - as long as the consumer thinks the result was made by humans. In the supermarket, deep down I know that Paul Newman didn't make the salad dressing himself, or indeed that any human made it, but I am still happy to go along with it.

It reminds me of an odd episode in the UK a few years back. For some reason (I can't remember what exactly) some scandal blew up about a news report or documentary that wasn't quite how it seemed - there was some deceptive editing or something. People became hysterical about it - as they do - and we reached the point where this happened:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/frozen-planet-scandal-sir-david-96593
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ear-cubs-filmed-Frozen-Planet-zoo-Arctic.html

Some studio trickery inserted into a nature documentary became a "scandal"; the viewers were being "duped"; the series was a "sham"; "fake" snow, and so on. Utterly pathetic. Anyone with any sophistication knew what would have to go on in order to put together those beautiful shots, and everyone else wouldn't have a clue, so wouldn't care.

Life is better if we go along with being "duped" sometimes - as long as it doesn't cost much money. I think even audio DIY-ers who know what goes into their creations need to dupe themselves. In my case, I re-use vintage speaker enclosures, thereby giving myself a sense of 'classic essence' even though they're just MDF boxes like any other.

 

[amirm]

Please do contribute. I have much to say about my approach to hobbies and did find it very similar to that of many fellow audiophiles. Sample size is certainly small but forum gives you an idea of the mindset..
I came to this essay in Aeon. A little long but an interesting read.
CLICK HERE

It was a good read. I am not a coffee drinker so can't comment on substance of it. But good to see blind testing being applied there.

My analogy here may be gardening. Commercial agriculture relies on shipping fruit which means that ripe fruit or fruit that bruises easily cannot be in their list of fruit they grow. As a home grower then, I focus on what I can't buy in store. As an example, we inherited a plumb tree that produces tiny fruit the size of cherries. If picked at any time before peak, it is super sour. Let it ripen though and it becomes this super sweet fruit but its skin is so soft that it cannot be shipped. It spoils quickly even in the fridge. So we enjoy it and would never be able to find it in stores.

Another example is a pear tree we planted. It is the tastiest pear I have ever had. But it ripens all once and in a day or two after picking the core goes bad. And the tree loves to drop its fruit causing them to spoil on the ground.

 

[Old Listener]

I've never been a coffee drinker. Tea, yes. I just placed an order for 19 teas.

My wife and I use mirrorless m43 cameras for wildflower/insect closeups with macro lenses and for wildlife with long zooms. We have one bridge camera with 1" sensor and 25-400mm (35mm eq.) zoom for everything else. Neither of us has an interest in photography as a hobby.

We like cars that handle well and have good power. A VW GTi with 4 doors, 4 seats and a hatch provides utility without sacrificing fun. That allows us to have a 2 seat convertible BMW M roadster for more fun. We've always had cars that we enjoyed and never spend huge amounts of money.

I've been interested in music as a listener for more than 60 years ans in audio for better sound for over 50 years. I don't buy gear often and only after careful thought and research. I keep stuff until it breaks or my needs change.

I've spent far more on recorded music than on gear in the last 20 years.

We travel quite a bit and can be away for 5-6 weeks for places that are worth it. We don't have a travel budget but we keep the expenses down.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

On the coffee side there is the sheer joy/connection/communion with the process for a espresso or derivative beverages (latt, cappuccino, etc):
Grind the coffee beans to the desired coarseness. Not as evident as it seems. You could just put the grinder on "espresso" and be done but this is dependent on the beans and your own taste...
Drop this freshly ground coffee to the Portafilter
Tamp it (there is an ideal tamping force, which depends on the coarseness , the bean itself and of course you own taste)
Mount the portafilter on the previously warmed machine ...
Measure carefully the volume for the "shot" .. To little , it is a ristretto, longer a longo ... too long and you have a strange mixture that frankly taste bad...
Then you finally drink the thing ... And I haven't even approach the art of steaming the Milk
Tedious for most humans, a welcome ritual for coffee aficionados...

All these steps introduce a lot of variables .. Too many to list, even with my limited knoweldge..

With a NEspresso. You put the pod on the machine and that is it. Same pod will in 99.9999999999999% of the case will produce the same taste, texture, etc IOW the same experience. It doesn't take any special knowledge. Pop the ESE filter and Voila coffee... A person with great knoweldge of espresso-making can make a better shot if everything is optimal but with the nespresso .. the level of ineptitude required to screw it up is is uncommon.. Plop the pod press a button and that is it ... Do it 50,000 times, with same pod , same results ...

Yet I find myself liking the process .. and the machines... I own a Breville Barista and a De Longhi and while they're not ugly they don't look like a La Marzocco Mistral ( a $24,000 machine just in case you were thinking the prices were "reasonable" compared to High End Audio and this machine is operated by pedal!!) .. I will not go there, ever .. I have also become an objectivist on the coffee side too ... still... this has me understanding some audiophiles who like their Vinyl rituals.. Part of the enjoyment I guess. It may also explain how TTs are the most strikingly beautiful of anything High End Audio... Mere CD spinners can't approach the beauty of a TT... There isn't any CD transport equivalent of a ClearAudio TT or A Goldmund ,a micro Seiki, Gyrodec, la Luce ...

For your enjoyment

LUXURY ESPRESSO MACHINES

 

[Ron Party]

I just made me an expresso, just like I do every morning. I also own a Breville. Blue Bottle Coffee, roasted right here in Oakland, 2 days ago. Yummmm.

Frantz, FWIW, a couple of years ago I was looking at a simple espresso machine for my office. Form factor, i.e., simplicity and cleanliness, were very important. Sur La Table had both the Nespresso and Illy pod machines. Tasted several Nespresso pods. Illy for my tastes was a significantly better shot. It's been Illy in the office ever since.

 

[RayDunzl]

http://www.cafebustelo.com/enAt a job site (co-locate) in Miami, on the second day, at 8:30 a.m.:

Local Tech: "Come on down to the loading dock if you want to do some coke".
Me: "Uh, well, ok..."

Being, at least, curious, I showed up.

They sit on the dock and do espresso shots to start the day... and call it cocaine.

My daily coffee has since become Cafe Bustelo, espresso grind in a regular old Mr Coffee type generic appliance.

http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-coffee-makes-you-live-longer

 

[Ronm1]

I am not an expresso drinker, but I am a coffee drinker. My recommendation is to find s local roaster that you are tune and in sync with, you won't be disappointed.

 

[FrantzM]

I just made me an expresso, just like I do every morning. I also own a Breville. Blue Bottle Coffee, roasted right here in Oakland, 2 days ago. Yummmm.

Frantz, FWIW, a couple of years ago I was looking at a simple espresso machine for my office. Form factor, i.e., simplicity and cleanliness, were very important. Sur La Table had both the Nespresso and Illy pod machines. Tasted several Nespresso pods. Illy for my tastes was a significantly better shot. It's been Illy in the office ever since.

Hi

While I was in Italy some Italian friends recommended the Breville Barista over some more expensive machines I was looking at spoiled by High End Audio where a $2000 amp is below entry-level ... They prompted showed me that the Breville was the best for me and my tastes ... and that I would be better off learning about coffee beans and the techniques rather than eternalizing on machines, especially expensive ones... The consensus from these guys ( all immensely knwoeledgeable) was that past 1000 Euros .. you were in diminishing return and wildly subjective territory... Similar to High End Audio where some people don't care a bit about their listening room Acoustics while eternalizing on electronics or (God help them!) Ethernet Cables They also recommended the Ily over the Nespresso. Thing is where I live finding ESE pods which is what I think the Ily uses is close to impossible ... My DeLonghi can also use ESE pods , I will buy some at Amazon (would-be World domineer? ) and test/taste these

I don't want to get into the roasting, yet .. I have much on my plate these days... but I can get very good local coffee here in Haiti. BTW we roast our coffee in a very particular and different way. The coffee preparation is also unusual perhaps unique.. More later..
I haven't touched photography, a hobby many audiophiles share ... We seem to approach it the same way. With the "best" lenses, tripod, camera bodies, etc... We go absolutely boker on anything >20 Mp and it has to be full frame.. Some continue to think that Silver-based is superior to digital ... We even have our FM Acoustics in Leica cameras which cost an arm and a leg but are regularly trounced in every way that matters except perhaps prestige by The Canon, Nikon and lesser Japanese cameras...
We go full frame and get decent pictures ... The secret in great photography is to learn to see and use the camera as a tool

on that have a look at this:

IPHONE PHOTOGRAPHERS BY STYLE / GENRE

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I just made me an expresso, just like I do every morning. I also own a Breville. Blue Bottle Coffee, roasted right here in Oakland, 2 days ago. Yummmm.

Frantz, FWIW, a couple of years ago I was looking at a simple espresso machine for my office. Form factor, i.e., simplicity and cleanliness, were very important. Sur La Table had both the Nespresso and Illy pod machines. Tasted several Nespresso pods. Illy for my tastes was a significantly better shot. It's been Illy in the office ever since.

Do you have measurements?

Seriously, I have learned that espresso, inspite of its rich and robust taste, has less caffeine than coffee, contrary to what many believe. Consumer Reports just published that. The smaller espresso portion is part of it. I have found that a double espresso, black with no sugar after dinner at a restaurant, is both very satisfying and it does not keep me awake. But, you have to get used to the lower temperature at which espresso is often served relative to coffee. The lower temp is part of the deal, it seems.

Now, if I only had space on my kitchen counter for an espresso machine...

 

[Don Hills]

We have a Breville Barista as well. We bought it for our son, who is training to be a barista. He doesn't use it often though, he says it's rather fiddly to get consistent results. But he's spoilt from using "real" machines...

 

[Old Listener]

...
I haven't touched photography, a hobby many audiophiles share ... We seem to approach it the same way. With the "best" lenses, tripod, camera bodies, etc... We go absolutely boker on anything >20 Mp and it has to be full frame.. Some continue to think that Silver-based is superior to digital ... We even have our FM Acoustics in Leica cameras which cost an arm and a leg but are regularly trounced in every way that matters except perhaps prestige by The Canon, Nikon and lesser Japanese cameras...
We go full frame and get decent pictures ... The secret in great photography is to learn to see and use the camera as a tool

You are using a rather narrow definition of audiophiles. I hope that there is room for people who love music and good sound but aren't in a permanent quest for new expensive toys.

There are photography gearheads and technique jocks but most of the people taking pictures understand that the point is to capture something that they see.

None of the photo gear that my wife and I use is top of the line. No full frame at all. Our micro four thirds cameras have smaller sensors but have features that meet our needs better than any DSLRs do. Sony mirrorless cameras are closer in features but not there yet.

Some examples:

wildflowers and insects in a redwood forest
https://naturelover.smugmug.com/Nature/Fetid-adders-toungue-Forest-of

flower and insect photos from our yard and neighborhood
https://naturelover.smugmug.com/Bills-Recovery-photo-therapy

Our Flickr site
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_lesley_photos/page1

 

[FrantzM]

Old'

Hyperbole to make a point. This very site is proof positive that all audiophiles are not gearheads going after the latest and more expensive ... So let me have a little bit of fun at our (my) own expenses ...

@Don Hills

I was going to get the Breville the Infusor which is the same machine but without the grinder .. found the Barista on Craigslist at a price too low to pass ... Got it .. The grinder is the weak point. For better and more consistent results one should use a stand-alone grinder ... Those come at all prices (some well over $3000) but <$300 is the sweet spot ... and Breville actually has one of the best grinder for espresso around .. regardless of price the Breville BCG820BSSXL The Smart Grinder Pro . around $200
Excellent for espresso but according to the connoisseurs, not that good for more coarse grind such as those for French Press

 

[Don Hills]

That was my opinion as well, I wanted a separate grinder, but was overruled by SWMBO... she thought I was cheaping out by going for the one without the grinder.

 

[Soniclife]

Coffee grinders are like speakers, they need to be good, espresso machines are more like amps, you can get by with less.

I've never found anything that varies in taste as much as coffee, no two cups of coffee I make ever seem to be the same, no matter how much you try to control the variables it always comes out different. I can make consistently excellent coffee, or better, so I approach it like a live performance, where you want variation, and not like putting a CD on.

 

[Cosmik]

I've never found anything that varies in taste as much as coffee, no two cups of coffee I make ever seem to be the same, no matter how much you try to control the variables it always comes out different.

Are you sure that *you* and your taste buds are not the variable?

 

[Sal1950]

My recommendation is to find s local roaster that you are tune and in sync with, you won't be disappointed.

I had a guy, now he's doing 7 to 15 for possession with intent to distribute.