Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

[Andysu]

I guess the point of your posts will continue to elude me.

i guess so . one life's biggest mysteries

 

[Tommiebaker]

Can I test them on the film app, everyone?

 

[antcollinet]

Can I test them on the film app, everyone?

Test what on which app? Can you clarify? (you need to assume we don't know what you were looking at when you wrote that)

 

[Beave]

Test what on which app? Can you clarify? (you need to assume we don't know what you were looking at when you wrote that)

It's a spammer account - that's why the post doesn't make any sense.

 

[babadono]

I am surprised by Amir's comments about go ahead take whatever time you need to listen to "A" and then "B". 2 weeks, a month then change and another 2 weeks or a month. My auditory memory is not that good. To easily fooled/adaptive. I know when something sounds horrible but between 2 relatively good systems especially if you are using the same loudspeakers and switching amps or cables. I don't think I could tell.

 

[antcollinet]

I am surprised by Amir's comments about go ahead take whatever time you need to listen to "A" and then "B". 2 weeks, a month then change and another 2 weeks or a month. My auditory memory is not that good. To easily fooled/adaptive. I know when something sounds horrible but between 2 relatively good systems especially if you are using the same loudspeakers and switching amps or cables. I don't think I could tell.

It's to allow for the people who say it is not possible to get a proper impression of the sound if they are fast switching. If you are testing blind, fast switching is not a requirement. If they believe they have a better chance of telling a difference by listening longer - have at it.

If they are wrong, and are unable to tell the difference, then the blind listening protocol will show this.

 

[babadono]

It's to allow for the people who say it is not possible to get a proper impression of the sound if they are fast switching. If you are testing blind, fast switching is not a requirement. If they believe they have a better chance of telling a difference by listening longer - have at it.

If they are wrong, and are unable to tell the difference, then the blind listening protocol will show this.

Understood. I'm just saying for me to listen to something for 2 weeks then switch for 2 weeks (not Loudspeakers) and tell you which is better. I could not do it.

 

[antcollinet]

Understood. I'm just saying for me to listen to something for 2 weeks then switch for 2 weeks (not Loudspeakers) and tell you which is better. I could not do it.

I agree. I don't think that anyone can.

But there are those that argue against blind testing by saying that you can't tell by fast switching. The answer to that is - "well don't then"

 

[babadono]

And I argue(too strong a word?) fast switching double blindly is the only way. Listen as long as you like to "A" but switch to "B" FAST. My auditory memory is too fleeting.

 

[antcollinet]

And I argue(too strong a word?) fast switching double blindly is the only way. Listen as long as you like to "A" but switch to "B" FAST. My auditory memory is too fleeting.

I'm still agreeing with you.

 

[Blumlein 88]

And I argue(too strong a word?) fast switching double blindly is the only way. Listen as long as you like to "A" but switch to "B" FAST. My auditory memory is too fleeting.

Still it is an oft heard criticism. That one can listen for days or whatever to fully take in sound character and if you switch something a difference is apparent. While fast switching is too stressful or doesn't give one time for full perception of sonic character. The Boston Audio society once had a box that either was a straight pass thru or had a circuit to produce I think 5% distortion. Handed out at random to members who took them home for a month and then chose whether they had a box with distortion or clean. They were told to listen for one month without switching out I think. Results were about 50/50. Then they were brought together at the next monthly meeting and used the same boxes with short segments and fast switching. All quickly learned to manage 100%. Still that complaint about blind tests is one heard over and over. So as said above, if you think you can do better with slow switching or long listening sessions before switching no problem just do the test that way. We know it isn't true, but if think otherwise do it your way.

 

[JensA]

The last post in this thread is almost 2 years old but I just watched @amirm excellent video about audio blind testing.

I will soon be getting new (Purifi-based) amplifiers and, out of pure curiosity, I would like to test them in a blind test under a bit more "serious" conditions against my current amplifiers.

I have always ‘admired’ people with ‘audiophile’ ears who can clearly identify differences in sound between different setups, even when there is a long period of days or even weeks between listening tests....

Personally, I honestly only trust my own judgement when I can switch back and forth between two different configurations immediately. Even the 1-2 minutes it takes to reconnect the cables is actually too long for me...

If I want to conduct a serious blind test between different amplifiers, I probably won't get anywhere without audio switches.

What can you recommend?

I probably need two audio switches for an amplifier comparison.

1. A switch that splits the audio signal between the audio source or preamp and the amplifier's ‘audio inputs’ (unless I have two equivalent outputs on the source or preamp)
Any recommendations for this?

2. A switch that I connect to the two speaker outputs of the amplifiers on the input side and to the speaker on the output side.
Any recommendations for this purpose?
Would something like the Douk Audio VU3 Pro work? (https://doukaudio.com/products/douk...ker-selector-vu-meter-2-in-2-out-switcher-box)


I am also wondering if the audio switches would have an audible impact on the results....

 

[DVDdoug]

Personally, I honestly only trust my own judgement when I can switch back and forth between two different configurations immediately. Even the 1-2 minutes it takes to reconnect the cables is actually too long for me...

OK, but as a practical (and economic) matter, do you care if you can't hear any difference the next day? Is it worth a dollar more if it only sounds better (or different) for a few minutes/seconds?

If the "audiophile community" wasn't so biased against science, ABX boxes would probably be more-available...

There is software for easy ABXing between audio files if you want to compare high resolution or DSD to "CD quality" or MP3 to WAV, etc. But you have to do your own conversion (downsampling, or MP3 compression, etc.) to be 100% sure that you're comparing the exact same recoding.

If you trust the digitizing/recording you can make recordings to compare different hardware that way.

 

[krabapple]

Personally, I honestly only trust my own judgement when I can switch back and forth between two different configurations immediately. Even the 1-2 minutes it takes to reconnect the cables is actually too long for me...

There's nothing personal about that...it's simply bad practice to take 1-2 minutes to switch between A to B (and X, if ABX).
Reliable audio memory for subtle difference is nowhere near that long-lasting.
Fast switching is scientific best practice.

 

[babadono]

whatever you do @JensA to switch rapidly remember you have to get the two amp chains level matched. If not the louder one will sound mo' betta in almost every case. And I totally agree with you, you can not trust your auditory memory for 5 to 10 minutes let alone days, weeks or months. No one can. I love @DVDdoug 's sig. which quotes Floyd Toole " in blind testing the problem went away"

 

[JensA]

OK, but as a practical (and economic) matter, do you care if you can't hear any difference the next day? Is it worth a dollar more if it only sounds better (or different) for a few minutes/seconds?

If the "audiophile community" wasn't so biased against science, ABX boxes would probably be more-available...

There is software for easy ABXing between audio files if you want to compare high resolution or DSD to "CD quality" or MP3 to WAV, etc. But you have to do your own conversion (downsampling, or MP3 compression, etc.) to be 100% sure that you're comparing the exact same recoding.

If you trust the digitizing/recording you can make recordings to compare different hardware that way.

No, (ofcourse) I don't care too much If I can't hear the difference the next day , it's really just curiosity...

Thx for the link, this reminds me that I have actually done some ABXing with audio files in the past:
I used vinyl rips (in lossless) to compare phono preamps

 

[JensA]

whatever you do @JensA to switch rapidly remember you have to get the two amp chains level matched. If not the louder one will sound mo' betta in almost every case. And I totally agree with you, you can not trust your auditory memory for 5 to 10 minutes let alone days, weeks or months. No one can. I love @DVDdoug 's sig. which quotes Floyd Toole " in blind testing the problem went away"

ofcourse, I have absolutely no intention to fool myself.