Audeze LCD-X Review (2021 Edition Headphone)

[IAtaman]

What IS objectively neutral?

LCD-X, apparently.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

LCD-X, apparently.

Nope.
Such a thing does not exist! transducers of any kind are not neutral, not yet.
I agree with you, that the Harman curve is a good approximation, since there is nothing tangibly better.

 

[Nils030]

What IS objectively neutral?

Subjectively the fletcher Munson curve is neutral as all frequencies are equal loud.
Pink noise would be more objectively as all frequency have the same power (4,5db slope).
Harman target curve sounds to me more what an untrained listener prefers as the bass is quite prominent to the other frequency’s and the highs are a hyped as well.. basically a smiley curve. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Robbo99999]

One more question if I may, in my understanding Harman target with its pinna gain and bass boost etc is supposed to represent the FR a headphone should have on a human head, in order for its FR to be perceived as neutral at the ear drum. If that is the case, then you WOULD want to tune it to Harman target, maybe not with 25 filters as you rightfully criticized, but with broad strokes as its said around here, and adjust to your own taste for it to be a good mixing headphone. What does Harman target represent in your understanding?

I believe that's what Revel+ does as well, that is, tune the headphone to your estimated HRTF, and claiming it improves clarity and separation. So If I am understanding it correctly, they are proposing the exact opposite of what you are proposing. Am I getting you wrong?

Reveal+ uses AI algorithms to create your unique personalized HRTF in 30 seconds or less. When you combine Audeze headphones with Reveal+, you’ll hear every single sound with impeccable clarity and separation

Harman Target is gonna be a lot more neutral for more folks than the wild west of headphone frequency responses out there, including the stock frequency response of this Audeze headphone! So I don't think you're far wrong in saying Harman Target is neutral.....I suppose if you're being pedantic you'd say it has a touch more bass than would be strictly neutral, but as far as a one-stop-shop fixed target curve could ever be it's not crazy to be calling it neutral. Of course it's impossible that it would sound neutral or indeed be neutral for everyone due to anatomy differences, which is the main challenge/problem with headphones vs speakers.

 

[Nils030]

The Harman curve doesn’t implement the fact that loudness changes the perception of frequency’s.. at a certain loudness fletcher Munson and Harman are similar (not the 4K dip) but that changes if loudness increases or decreases..

 

[Chagall]

Also, newer Audeze models, MM500 are moving away from old Audeze FR, towards Harman. Tuned by a mixer and intended for mixing.

But that's all marketing. Pro TV/monitors are intended for content creation, but you can certainly consume media with them.

 

[Intervallkoppler]

Hello,

i just got the frequency response from my 2021 lcd directly from audeze.
It looks kind of strange compared to your graph.
Whats going on there.

 

[IAtaman]

Hello,

i just got the frequency response from my 2021 lcd directly from audeze.
It looks kind of strange compared to your graph.
Whats going on there.

First of all, I have to admit I am somewhat bummed since you missed a great opportunity to use this gif.

As per the graphs, I think the obvious differences are scaling (40-140 on Audeze, 70 - 117 on Amir's), smoothing and possibly differences in rig dependent resonances. There might be some unit variation and measurement method variations as well.

As someone who knows more about the electronics side of this hobby than its acoustics side, I assumed for a while that an FR was like equivalent of measuring the response of a circuit with an oscilloscope - you use the same config, you get the same results. It turns out, it is not. Headphone measurements are not precise.

 

[Intervallkoppler]

First of all, I have to admit I am somewhat bummed since you missed a great opportunity to use this gif.

View attachment 291288

As per the graphs, I think the obvious differences are scaling (40-140 on Audeze, 70 - 117 on Amir's), smoothing and possibly differences in rig dependent resonances. There might be some unit variation and measurement method variations as well.

As someone who knows more about the electronics side of this hobby than its acoustics side, I assumed for a while that an FR was like equivalent of measuring the response of a circuit with an oscilloscope - you use the same config, you get the same results. It turns out, it is not. Headphone measurements are not precise.

Maybe i am too old?
But i am very sry

I just asked myself if the frequency response is out of tolerances.
But maybe the messurement method and circumstances are too different.

Are here other people with their own 2021 lcd-x graph?

 

[IAtaman]

Maybe i am too old?
But i am very sry

You are only as old as your gif collection.

I just asked myself if the frequency response is out of tolerances.
But maybe the messurement method and circumstances are too different.

Are here other people with their own 2021 lcd-x graph?

Yes, quite a few actually. Here is 3 I know of.

LCD-X (Fazor)

back to Audeze back to measurements home published: Jul-5-2017, updated: June-6-2021 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Listener's Clone KB006x Database

Satiate your sordid squiggle yearning!

listener.squig.link

And you would not believe the drama and the politics measuring headphones creates.

Or do you mean the LCD-X measurements from Audeze specific for their headphones? If yes, I don't know. How does one go about getting such a thing?

 

[Intervallkoppler]

You are only as old as your gif collection.

Yes, quite a few actually. Here is 3 I know of.

LCD-X (Fazor)

back to Audeze back to measurements home published: Jul-5-2017, updated: June-6-2021 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Listener's Clone KB006x Database

Satiate your sordid squiggle yearning!

listener.squig.link

And you would not believe the drama and the politics measuring headphones creates.

Or do you mean the LCD-X measurements from Audeze specific for their headphones? If yes, I don't know. How does one go about getting such a thing?

I think. I really don't won't to get suck in into these conflicts. At least i can try.

Yes, this is the measurement from my own unit from audeze.
I just send them an email and asked for it.

 

[staticV3]

Whats going on there.

Audeze use a Neumann KU 100 measurement rig, which produces fundamentally different measurements compared to what Amir, oratory1990, and co. are using.

The Neumann is fine for quality control work, but is not suited for simulating the human ear.

 

[Intervallkoppler]

Audeze use a Neumann KU 100 measurement rig, which produces fundamentally different measurements than what Amir, oratory1990, and co. are using.

The Neumann is fine for quality control work, but is not suited for simulating the human ear.

Thank you, so this graph is kind of useless to know what i am hearing?

 

[Intervallkoppler]

Are here other people with an audeze mesurement graph from their own unit to compare?

 

[staticV3]

Thank you, so this graph is kind of useless to know what i am hearing?

The graph on its own is pretty useless. Definitely not suitable for developing EQ for example.

 

[solderdude]

Are here other people with an audeze mesurement graph from their own unit to compare?

Well I assume the measurements are used for Audeze's 'reveal+' app.

You can used it to apply some 'overall EQ' it just won't adhere to a known standard.

I say... just apply some EQ based on the plot and compare that EQ to one based on industry standard fixture (which will not be the same as your ears) to a specific target.
That target could be 'optimum hifi', DF, Harman or some other target preferred by measurebators.

Let your ears decide... they probably don't adhere to any standards anyway.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Hello,

i just got the frequency response from my 2021 lcd directly from audeze.
It looks kind of strange compared to your graph.
Whats going on there.

Having heard the headphones at length, I agree with this curve.

If we take the red line as our nominal, we can see:
- output is a little elevated from 1K down.
- There is a dip around 3.5k to 5k.
- there is a peak at 11K.
That's about right for LCD-X 21.

 

[goat76]

Are here other people with an audeze mesurement graph from their own unit to compare?

Here's mine and it looks similar to yours.
Excellent sounding headphones that take any EQ you throw at them if you like to alter the sound.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello,

i just got the frequency response from my 2021 lcd directly from audeze.
It looks kind of strange compared to your graph.
Whats going on there.View attachment 291290

Thank you, so this graph is kind of useless to know what i am hearing?

See if you can find someone who has measured the same unit of LDC X on a KU100 rig and also on a GRAS, then you can work out a conversion curve from KU100 to GRAS that is valid only for the LCD X, then you'd be able to compare your translated to GRAS measurement with the Harman Curve & then EQ that to Harman - this way you've effectively got an individualised GRAS measurement for your unit of headphone, but beyond that the measurement you've been given is useless in my eyes. They have to have measured the very same unit on both KU100 and GRAS, and they'd have to be "competent" measuring individuals.

 

[R1c0c0]

Anyone’s driving an LCD-X with sound devices mixpre series ? Specs say:

• DAC feeding Stereo Out, Headphone Out
  • 32 bit precision; 115 dB dynamic range (A-weighted)

• Headphones Out​

  • 3.5 mm TRS stereo unbalanced, 300 mW + 300 mW, for use with any impedance headphones

Are these specs any good ?