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Audeze LCD-24 Review (Headphone)

Jimbob54

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median is a useless value.

No form of average has much meaning in this context really, does it? To the casual reader, perhaps what the reviews need is a "how hard to drive " score? So something that factors in impedance, sensitivity etc.

Might prevent a lot of the usual questions (often in the amp threads)- "will this be enough to drive my {wide range of headphones} ?"
 

manishex

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This is a single sided design. Just like with the double sided he-6, would the lcd-4 get even lower distortion. Already 0.05 percent at 114db in the bass, where most headphones are 2-10 percent.
This was a limited edition design made as a pet project to tune the new fluxor magnets to sound like an LCD-2.
 
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flipflop

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The frequency response looks too troublesome to EQ sucessfully with a pretty sharp & very deep dip at 4kHz.
The response is fairly smooth up to 4 kHz, so it shouldn't be a problem to equalize the large 1-5 kHz dip in that area. It's from 8 kHz and up, where thing get really volatile, and reseats are likely to shift the narrow dips and peak around, that it becomes problematic to make reliable EQ adjustments.
 

Robbo99999

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The response is fairly smooth up to 4 kHz, so it shouldn't be a problem to equalize the large 1-5 kHz dip in that area. It's from 8 kHz and up, where thing get really volatile, and reseats are likely to shift the narrow dips and peak around, that it becomes problematic to make reliable EQ adjustments.
By the looks of it you'd need +12dB Q3 or up to equalise that dip at 4kHz, I think that's on the more unreasonable side. If that headphone didn't have that sharp dip & was instead just a more flat response albeit a long way from the target then I wouldn't be so harsh on it - because it could be EQ'd up without using high Q filters, but as it stands it has this flaw whilst being $3500 to boot!
 

abdo123

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No form of average has much meaning in this context really, does it? To the casual reader, perhaps what the reviews need is a "how hard to drive " score? So something that factors in impedance, sensitivity etc.

Might prevent a lot of the usual questions (often in the amp threads)- "will this be enough to drive my {wide range of headphones} ?"

the majority of headphone amplifiers are voltage limited as far as i know.

either way I always perceived these values as 'industry trends' rather than percise information over one product or the other.
 

flipflop

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you'd need +12dB Q3 or up to equalise that dip at 4kHz, I think that's on the more unreasonable side.
I'll have to disagree. These headphones are very sensitive and have a very low distortion profile. A typically recommended $100 amp should have no problem driving them even with a -12 dB gain preamp setting.
If that headphone didn't have that sharp dip & was instead just a more flat response albeit a long way from the target then I wouldn't be so harsh on it - because it could be EQ'd up without using high Q filters, but as it stands it has this flaw whilst being $3500 to boot!
A Q-factor of 3 is not high. Toole defines low, medium, and high Q as 1, 10, and 50, respectively:
just-noticeable Q.PNG
 
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solderdude

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There is no practical distortion between 94 and 114dB so even when boosting the bass 5dB at loud levels or filling in the dip around 4kHz there will still be no audible distortion.

Below 94 dB there also won't be distortion. The seemingly rising distortion at 94dB is not a higher distortion. It's the noise floor.
When one would make plots at 84dB and 74dB distortion would show as 0.8% and 2.5% respectively but in reality would be below 0.1% or so.
 

F1308

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Regarding that table on hedphone weight the review started with, I would like to say that from own HEDD information on their hedphones as of today, and having being revised here before ("There is no sugar coating the massive size and high weight of HEDD..."), we see...

Technical Data

Concept: Open over ear headphone with Air. Motion Transformer.
Efficiency: 87 dB SPL for 1 mW.
Impedance: 42 Ω.
Weight: 718 g
Connector: Mini XLR.
List Price (RRP) 1700€ / 1899$ incl. VAT.

So 718 grams puts them first in weight.

Thanks very much.
 
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Robbo99999

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I'll have to disagree. These headphones are very sensitive and have a very low distortion profile. A typically recommended $100 amp should have no problem driving them even with a -12 dB gain preamp setting.

A Q-factor of 3 is not high. Toole defines low, medium, and high Q as 1, 10, and 50, respectively:
View attachment 133874
I disagree, a filter with a Q of 10 has no place in any EQ, and certainly not in a headphone where the position of peaks is more variable per person than it would be for speakers.....and to top it off a Q of 50 is absolute nonsense in any situation or hardware! I really don't agree with that assessment. I don't think more than Q6 should be used in headphones, and this gets stricter the further up the frequency range you go due to the inaccuracies & individualities associated with headphone listening & it's measurement thereof.

This headphone is too expensive for the frequency response flaws that it shows at 4kHz. I obviously admit that the distortion profile of the drivers is amazing, but in my experience there is no need to place massive weight on that measurement variable.....so this headphone for me is not on my recommended list. If it had been less than $500 then I'd possibly be recommending it to folks whenever I see people asking for advice or at least not dissuading them. $3500 for those kind of frequency response errors and a requirement of +12dB Q3 or more at 4kHz is unreasonable and especially at $3500.

EDIT: I've just noticed, you are taking Toole's quote out of context - he's talking about resonances in a frequency response, not useful/ sensible/advisable implementation of Q values in EQ!
 
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abdo123

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EDIT: I've just noticed, you are taking Toole's quote out of context - he's talking about resonances in a frequency response, not useful or sensible implementation of Q values in EQ!

I agree, Q values above 8 are considered 'ringing', and are almost never recommended unless when dealing with resonances or axial room modes.
 

Chrise36

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while this might seem like a decent idea at the start, in reality, people will receive a garbage product out of the box.


I very much rather that the industry just moves forward to active designs.[/QUOTE
A HP for $3,500 that test like this? Some may think that it's a bargain.
A friend once told me: It's easy to find a good bottle of wine for $1,000. But it is more difficult to find an excellent bottle of wine for $25.
Here we kind of have a winiger for $3,500.
Sorry Audeze, don't count on me for your annual sale target. My money won't go to you!
And it will give you a headache after a while because of the weight. Some companies still refuse to accept that hifi world has changed.
 

Helicopter

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Thanks Amir. Looks like your perspecive on the importance if sound without EQ has changed since the LCD-X review.

I would like to see how performance is on LCD-GX which AFAIK has these nice magnesium cups, LCD-X drivers, and no Fazors, all at a much lower price.
 

ErFero

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Audeze has 20 headphones in the catalog and all are practically identical in terms of tonality. I had the lcd2f, resold precisely for this exaggerated lack in the high range.
I can tolerate a lagging low end, but highs like that? Come on
 

acbarn

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Audeze has 20 headphones in the catalog and all are practically identical in terms of tonality. I had the lcd2f, resold precisely for this exaggerated lack in the high range.
I can tolerate a lagging low end, but highs like that? Come on
Agreed. Many of their headphones seem designed primarily to a price point, not to a difference in sound signature. The deficiencies in the FR across the line are a non-starter for me, regardless of the price. The weight is also ridiculous.
 

flipflop

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EDIT: I've just noticed, you are taking Toole's quote out of context - he's talking about resonances in a frequency response, not useful/ sensible/advisable implementation of Q values in EQ!
Considering the fact that the context of Toole's quote is the figure above it and the fact that the resonances were introduced via EQ, I don't think I'm taking anything out of context.
 

Robbo99999

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Thanks Amir. Looks like your perspecive on the importance if sound without EQ has changed since the LCD-X review.

I would like to see how performance is on LCD-GX which AFAIK has these nice magnesium cups, LCD-X drivers, and no Fazors, all at a much lower price.
To be fair the LCD-X had a larger & sharper dip at 4kHz than the headphone reviewed here. So here's a pic of the frequency response of the LCD-X where you can see the even larger & sharper 4kHz dip:
1622905311593.png

Now that one is truly un'EQable, the LCD24 is more EQ'able in that region, not as bad as the LCD-X above. Although I'll reiterate my prior statements that the LCD24 is unreasonable in the 4kHz area (and not easily EQ'd at that point) and especially for $3500.

Amir wasn't measuring distortion in the same way for that early LCD-X review, so I find it hard to compare the capabilities of the driver from that point of view, either way the LCD-X is more troublesome than the LCD24 as seen in the reviews here.
 

Robbo99999

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Considering the fact that the context of Toole's quote is the figure above it and the fact that the resonances were introduced via EQ, I don't think I'm taking anything out of context.
Yes you are. Toole is talking about reliable recognisable resonances in a frequency response. That's a long way away from equating the same Q-values to sensible/advisable EQ strategies for headphones where the unpredictability of the measurement & frequency response increases the higher up the frequency range you go. By all means flipflop, apply Q10-50 filters on your headphones and see how you go, but you'll be worse for wear.
 

Helicopter

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Agreed. Many of their headphones seem designed primarily to a price point, not to a difference in sound signature. The deficiencies in the FR across the line are a non-starter for me, regardless of the price. The weight is also ridiculous.
I find the heavier LCD-X quite comfortable. My biggest objections are the wood on several models, the seemingly random pricing of various combinations of parts, and the raw FR, that always has bad tonality and a dip that will need 8dB or so to EQ. I like the design of the metal cupped models, and the undistorted power handling across the whole range.
 
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