Atoll DAC200 Signature - Review & Measurements (DAC)

[RandomEar]

Thanks @VintageFlanker

I own the DAC100 that I bought a while ago, so I'm glad to finally see some measurements of their products. I assume mine is probably even less performant as it is their entry-grade product.

What I really like with it though - I cannot compare it sound wise to anything - is the multiple inputs. I use one for my Apple TV and the other one to receive audio.

Is there something in Topping and SMSL kind of companies that would do this but with top grade performance and with a reasonable price ?

Best wishes,

If you require multiple inputs and want excellent performance, the Octo DAC8 Sterero could be a solution. Sadly, it has the unpleasant characteristic of being continuously out of stock

 

[Scytales]

Thanks @VintageFlanker

I own the DAC100 that I bought a while ago, so I'm glad to finally see some measurements of their products. I assume mine is probably even less performant as it is their entry-grade product.

The DAC100 has been tested and measured by the German magazine Audio, issue 08/2010 (back issues do surface from time to time on Ebay). From the published FFT, I have calculated a THD over H2 to H5 of about 0,057 %. Thus, performance is on par with the DAC200 despite the fact that the DAC chip in the DAC100 is totally different - a Burr Brown PCM1796. This observation about the DAC100 is one more evidence that the harmonic distortion spectrum of the DAC200 is produced by the analogue output stage rather than something else.

 

[Rja4000]

Specificated THD+N went down from -120dB to now 0.002% (-93.9dB).

I'm not sure if I am happy to see them getting closer to the truth...

Without specifying this is only true around -15dBFS

 

[pickyAudiophile]

Thank you for that review. But it leaves you behind quivering and uncomfortable. It's always revealing when contributors provide us with insights into that Potemkim Village of boutique HiFi products.
I feel sorry for the brand and in particular for the workers in their manufacture in France. This attitude of utter denial at R&D dept' will not work on forever and certainly there will be hard times ahead, sooner or later.
From my own experience it gets harder and harder and with ever increasing pace to get rid of used components like European built class A-B amplifiers and other chunky components liker older DACs. That says something. The number of potential buyers of bad products will almost collapse one day and therefore many of these precarious brands will disappear.

 

[Milanraf]

Thanks @VintageFlanker

I own the DAC100 that I bought a while ago, so I'm glad to finally see some measurements of their products. I assume mine is probably even less performant as it is their entry-grade product.

What I really like with it though - I cannot compare it sound wise to anything - is the multiple inputs. I use one for my Apple TV and the other one to receive audio.

Is there something in Topping and SMSL kind of companies that would do this but with top grade performance and with a reasonable price ?

Best wishes,

I perfectly understand you. I am still using an Arcam Delta Black Box 500 DAC for this same reason and the inputs are full. Remote control is a plus.

 

[ChristianL_Mtl]

I perfectly understand you. I am still using an Arcam Delta Black Box 500 DAC for this same reason and the inputs are full. Remote control is a plus.

I would not do that, but it might be less expensive to buy two entry-level Topping and switch between them on the amplifier.

If I understand correctly @VintageFlanker, some data are in the audible range. The DAC100 only has RCA outputs, so it's even worst !

It has been with me for over 10 years, so I'm now used to the warm sound.

 

[Jimster480]

Honestly I don't understand how terrible products like this exist... Why spend all the time to make something look so nice and polished only to blow it in the category that it actually matters which is sound reproduction performance.
Even if it can "sound fine" it isn't what any potential buyer is paying for here... to have worse performance vs a $90 DAC.

 

[DTTOM37]

Honestly, I would ti

Honestly I don't understand how terrible products like this exist... Why spend all the time to make something look so nice and polished only to blow it in the category that it actually matters which is sound reproduction performance.
Even if it can "sound fine" it isn't what any potential buyer is paying for here... to have worse performance vs a $90 DAC.

Honestly, I think in Europe - particularly in France - they have (had) many happy customers for their products.

Reading reviews targeting their market audience, owner of these products my have assumed that these are excellent. There are - for sure - many customers that don't want to be bothered by graphs and objective logic - because they regard buying a device as an experience. There are so many reasons to get into the loophole of a specific brand. And if they like the performance/sound first place, why should they bother? Just to find out what they may have done wrong in someone else's opinion?

I am happy that @VintageFlanker has revealed how this device deviates from objectivly reasonable perfect performance, however, I would never want to belittle Atoll owners who are happy with what they got in their systems. SQ is imho a very subjective reception/perception to many, depending on much more than objectively perfect performance.

I need to admit that I was intrigued by their Streamer/Dac/Amplifier AIO once in 2019 - but would not automatically advise that device to anyone asking without guiding to this DAC review.

 

[CedarX]

Honestly, I think in Europe - particularly in France - they have (had) many happy customers for their products.

Reading reviews targeting their market audience, owner of these products my have assumed that these are excellent. There are - for sure - many customers that don't want to be bothered by graphs and objective logic - because they regard buying a device as an experience. There are so many reasons to get into the loophole of a specific brand. And if they like the performance/sound first place, why should they bother? Just to find out what they may have done wrong in someone else's opinion?

I am happy that @VintageFlanker has revealed how this device deviates from objectivly reasonable perfect performance, however, I would never want to belittle Atoll owners who are happy with what they got in their systems. SQ is imho a very subjective reception/perception to many, depending on much more than objectively perfect performance.

I need to admit that I was intrigued by their Streamer/Dac/Amplifier AIO once in 2019 - but would not automatically advise that device to anyone asking without guiding to this DAC review.

I don't think anybody has an issue with Atoll targeting a specific audience by incorporating some euphonic characteristics in their products--the "output stages with discrete components, without feedback, polarized in class A" may be where the euphony happens... but also where the performances fall apart. If it is indeed what Atoll is doing, why do they even publish (misleading) specs (a question from @VintageFlanker)? Why do they boldly claim that the "DAC200 Signature has been implemented to give you the best of your favorite music" without any element supporting that claim?
I also agree with @Jimster480 comment: from a technical standpoint, the DAC200 is a big waste of engineering resource and time. It would not have cost Atoll more to design a DAC with "decent" performance instead of this mess...

 

[DTTOM37]

I don't think anybody has an issue with Atoll targeting a specific audience by incorporating some euphonic characteristics in their products--the "output stages with discrete components, without feedback, polarized in class A" may be where the euphony happens... but also where the performances fall apart. If it is indeed what Atoll is doing, why do they even publish (misleading) specs (a question from @VintageFlanker)? Why do they boldly claim that the "DAC200 Signature has been implemented to give you the best of your favorite music" without any element supporting that claim?
I also agree with @Jimster480 comment: from a technical standpoint, the DAC200 is a big waste of engineering resource and time. It would not have cost Atoll more to design a DAC with "decent" performance instead of this mess...

@CedarX
I tried to look at the situation regarding the customer side, not the manufucturer's design goals.
I may feel sorry if I couldn't transport that transparently with my 2nd language skills.
cheers, Tom

 

[Talisman]

Honestly, I think in Europe - particularly in France - they have (had) many happy customers for their products.

Reading reviews targeting their market audience, owner of these products my have assumed that these are excellent. There are - for sure - many customers that don't want to be bothered by graphs and objective logic - because they regard buying a device as an experience.

If we were to follow this principle then there is no objection even to fancy 10,000 euro per meter audiophile cables, not even to floor cable lifters, and not even to stones placed on top of electronics to make them sound better.
They all seem so enthusiastic about their amazing products and the night and day difference they can feel after placing a 1kg stone on a cd player.

But this site isn't called "audio voodoo review" for a reason

 

[Rja4000]

I would never want to belittle Atoll owners who are happy with what they got

Nobody wants that.
That's not the goal of those reviews.

 

[Rja4000]

Atoll targeting a specific audience by incorporating some euphonic characteristics in their products

Well, "euphonic" is optimistic.
I don't think there really is a recipe to build such thing as an "euphonically broken DAC".

I just think they targeted some audience, looked at the marketing keywords ("No feedback", "Discrete", "Class A" and, of course, "Made in France by a small team of 'Artisans' ")...
And they couldn't care less about the technical quality, thinking it would be "good enough" to sale anyway.
And who really cares, anyway ?

Well. We do.

 

[DTTOM37]

If we were to follow this principle then there is no objection even to fancy 10,000 euro per meter audiophile cables, not even to floor cable lifters, and not even to stones placed on top of electronics to make them sound better.
They all seem so enthusiastic about their amazing products and the night and day difference they can feel after placing a 1kg stone on a cd player.

But this site isn't called "audio voodoo review" for a reason

If you were to follow that principle (imho) you would not be excluded to get informed and educated about things/information you didn't take into account before and perhaps change your own behaviour and expectations after. (I would guess that you already did that in a certain way, did you ?)
However, reality may prove sometimes, that people who are doing this aren't the vast majority, which may suit the audio industry as a whole.
Please do not place my post in any terms close to any cable lifters or audiophile cables extremes, just because I fail to demonize people not buying strictly from the ASR Sinad list.

Nobody wants that.
That's not the goal of those reviews.

Did you feel that I critsized the review in my post, which I wrote as a reaction to a comment just above ?

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

I owned an Atoll integrated amplifier (IN100SE) before getting a Boxem Arthur 3409 (ncore 252mp).
I moved to class D for performance, efficiency and form factor and I am really pleased with it.
For sure, Atoll products measure poorly from pure technical standpoint.
But, to be honest, I would not pass a blind test between the 2 amps, as most of us.
At the time I bought the Atoll, far less educated and influenced by resellers, I went for Atoll, well known brand in France, that does local parts sourcing. Was feeling better with "made in france".
And to be honest, I enjoyed it a lot and liked its look.
That's maybe where sota engineering/performance and audible rendering/self satisfaction are different things.
But as of today, I don't regret moving to ncore.
I would not buy Atoll anymore (too expensive for poor performance, power consumption and weight). But I understand people who buy Atoll as the sonic experience is not that different in most cases and it makes them feel better / more comfortable.

 

[Talisman]

Please do not place my post in any terms close to any cable lifters or audiophile cables extremes, just because I fail to demonize people not buying strictly from the ASR Sinad list.

Two out of three of my major audio components have deserved a decapitated panther.
Objective reviews have no enemies, they are just reviews that show data, it's up to us to decide what to do with them. But at the same time paying for a nearly $1800 dac that measures worse than many $20 dongles on Amazon is the purest form of audiophile snake oil. If I had read the review and if I were an owner I would not feel "happy with the experience" but I would feel taken for a ride and exploited like a cash machine.

 

[Jimster480]

If we were to follow this principle then there is no objection even to fancy 10,000 euro per meter audiophile cables, not even to floor cable lifters, and not even to stones placed on top of electronics to make them sound better.
They all seem so enthusiastic about their amazing products and the night and day difference they can feel after placing a 1kg stone on a cd player.

But this site isn't called "audio voodoo review" for a reason

Many people assume marketing doesn't lie. They think governments protect then from companies lying to them.
So they just inheritly believe companies nonsense and then even start defending their purchases.

Two out of three of my major audio components have deserved a decapitated panther.
Objective reviews have no enemies, they are just reviews that show data, it's up to us to decide what to do with them. But at the same time paying for a nearly $1800 dac that measures worse than many $20 dongles on Amazon is the purest form of audiophile snake oil. If I had read the review and if I were an owner I would not feel "happy with the experience" but I would feel taken for a ride and exploited like a cash machine.

People don't know this and will never test the two. A dongle "sounds much worse" because the dongle plugs straight into the headphone and the DAC plugs into an Amp. They won't connect both to am Amp and level match to test the claims or experience.
The companies know this and it's how they get away with it

 

[VintageFlanker]

Honestly, I think in Europe - particularly in France - they have (had) many happy customers for their products.

They have indeed. Doesn't mean that these products are actually good or not.

Reading reviews targeting their market audience, owner of these products my have assumed that these are excellent.

That is the issue in my book. When you look at their press reviews on their website, you will only find stuff from the mainstream audiophile press, that is used to praise just about everything they "review". Some are litteraly a joke, such as Haute Fidélité (many call them Haute Publicité) or Diapason. There is nothing less reliable than a review from these aforementioned. Just infomercials, and nothing more. Among these, you may find a review from SoundStage for the In200 Signature, positive on the subjective side (it just always is) but the measurements are just horrendous, and most importantly, they show that the product is performing way out of specs (both distortion and power) Anyway, it is easy for people to get satisfied when someone else told them that they should. As I said in the intro, I also knew, talked to, and red from numerous people that are not satisfied with Atoll products. But my impressions are not more relevant in any kind... So, who is supposed to be right on this ? Everybody. Or perhaps no one. Then, you got the numbers, showing actual reality out of any irrational thoughts, preference, hate or fanboyism.

however, I would never want to belittle Atoll owners who are happy with what they got in their systems

Neither would I. That has never been the point.

why should they bother?

They should, at least because the company they give 1800€ to is almost lying to them with both false and shady specifications. That is the all point of my conclusion. The rest is not my concern.

SQ is imho a very subjective reception/perception to many, depending on much more than objectively perfect performance.

Like what exactly? Bias, for sure...

just because I fail to demonize people not buying strictly from the ASR Sinad list.

I don't buy anything based on SINAD chart, and honestly, nobody should. Audio products are much more complex than a SINAD number at x level. Measurements should be first read, and understood entirely. Then, there are many other factors outside of raw performance, that I mostly try to cover in my reviews.
Regarding this one in particular, it just sucks at anything else (doesn't even allow S/PDIF out when running USB, WTF?!) so purchase decision would be very easy for me.

 

[Mikycoud]

And here I was, strolling along this forum to chill out, taking a break from my other hobby actually: religions (where people find themselves endlessly debating over what is subjective/objective and what if it was the opposite, the contrary or the other way around?).
I guess the eternal (see what I did there?) DAC question yet remains: do I believe in higher powers (cough cough Marketing) enough to invest (myself or my money).
I am pretty sure what my fellow frenchman just did there, with this review, is try and give us educated clues. What we do with them is up to us...

 

[Jimster480]

Thankfully audio products can be scientifically measured where God cannot be measured,.

And here I was, strolling along this forum to chill out, taking a break from my other hobby actually: religions (where people find themselves endlessly debating over what is subjective/objective and what if it was the opposite, the contrary or the other way around?).
I guess the eternal (see what I did there?) DAC question yet remains: do I believe in higher powers (cough cough Marketing) enough to invest (myself or my money).
I am pretty sure what my fellow frenchman just did there, with this review, is try and give us educated clues. What we do with them is up to us...