Atoll DAC200 Signature - Review & Measurements (DAC)

[jipihorn]

By the way, for those who don't know jipihorn and are fluent in French, checkout his Youtube channel and blog :

https://www.youtube.com/@jipihorn/videos

Jipihorn's Blog

Its a big problem in these forums that people hold opinions with no supporting evidence that clearly contradict the available evidences - that's called religion and it has no place in audio. …

jipihorn.wordpress.com

Highly recommended.

Please, I'm here incognito !

But the quote from Earl Geddes is more relevant than ever :

It's a big problem in these forums that people hold opinions, with no supporting evidence, that clearly contradict the available evidences - that's called religion and it has no place in audio.


Earl Geddes - 2009

J.

 

[jmillar]

After ASR reviewed and was quite critical of early Schitt gear the company reacted and made massive improvements. Atoll may benefit from all this. It's silly to try to compete in the DAC segment, the market is saturated.

Maybe they should make amps, use purifi eigentakt boards and develop their own gain stages and buffers. Audiophonics in France is into a well known, well regarded company by doing just this. Don't reinvent the wheel, keep it simple, refine it and add value.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Robin: "Holy third harmonic, Batman!"

 

[MacCali]

Seems like the same thing with all these companies, they just regurgitate the measurements of the dac and once it reaches someone who can authenticate it it's usually a couple db down where we can fault no one as that is reasonable.

This on the other hand is pretty insane. I am guessing it's a fatal design flaw that was never looked into, unless this was a bad unit and I really doubt that.

I'm not too sure about Atoll, if I remember correctly they are a small french company. Not really sure how you can mess this up in the first place

 

[TOR]

This is all about management. People come and gone. Knowledgeable people will leave eventually. If management are just paper pusher with no knowledge of the technical skill set required to accomplish task. Everything will just fall apart.

Speaking of 'Listening test'... Once there were 3 blind man trying to form their opinion on an elephant. One said the elephant is flat. Another on said it solid & hit hard like timber. One said its slender, long & soft. A man with eye sight comes along and described the elephant as 7 ft tall, 3 ft wide, weight about 1/2 ton with 4 legs and a 6 ft long trunk.... The 3 blind man disputed the claim and said "Did you even touch the elephant? " The man with eye sight walked away...

 

[thecheapseats]

how.. does... this... happen...???

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Testing should have been done in French, after a bottle of Bordeaux. The results would have been stelar. Oui, oui!

 

[amirm]

I noticed in Atoll literature that, for USB, they recommend a cable with a ferrite bead. I understand it may be a good precaution, but does it really matter? Are they admitting to a (poor) EMI-sensitive, design?

Not in audible band. Those chokes start to work at 100 KHz and are really effective well above that.

 

[thecheapseats]

is this an out of spec or broken unit?... if not it's a physical embarrassment...

 

[IVX]

So this thing is just broken.
Period.

(As we are not using AP, I think it's good practice to specify which exact hardware is used for each test. It helps if someone else wants to duplicate measurements. No critic, just a suggestion for next review. You can expect a serious flak on this review if published on front page, so it's better to be bullet proof and open on methodology)

Also, it may be unfiltered HF content, BTW, APs VERY sensitive to such disturbance.

 

[Rja4000]

Please, I'm here incognito !

I didn't know you, and I'm happy for this link above.

Nice video of yours.
Well, not really the video themselves (I still have a hard time to be motivated enough to go through 10s of minutes of video to learn things I could learn in 3 minutes reading) but the content.
I've been through your video about this ridiculous audiophile ethernet switch.

And your reference to Ethan Winer is also excellent.
Would you have the link to his measurement, by any chance ?

 

[jipihorn]

I didn't know you, and I'm happy for this link above.

Nice video of yours.
Well, not really the video themselves (I still have a hard time to be motivated enough to go through 10s of minutes of video to learn things I could learn in 3 minutes reading) but the content.
I've been through your video about this ridiculous audiophile ethernet switch.

And your reference to Ethan Winer is also excellent.
Would you have the link to his measurement, by any chance ?

Hello,

I'm working at LLN now...
What measurement you are speaking about ?

J.

 

[jipihorn]

Testing should have been done in French, after a bottle of Bordeaux. The results would have been stelar. Oui, oui!

That's a prerequisite for real subjective analysis. By the way, the price of the grand cru has a hard positive correlation with quality.

J.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I didn't know you, and I'm happy for this link above

He was my first introduction to objectivism when I was young(er) and naive.
These videos have been eye-openers to me:

 

[Scytales]

Question to jipihorn :

Don't you think the 100 Hz spaced side-bands visible before and after the signal on the FFT of the DAC200 (the pictures labelled "THD+N") in the opening post look suspiciously alike those you have observed by measuring a kit implementation of the earlier ESS ES9018 in one of your video ?

Explanation from 18:37 in the video :

And full analysis of the identified defect :

 

[Rja4000]

Don't you think the 100 Hz spaced side-bands visible before and after the signal on the FFT of the DAC200 (the pictures labelled "THD+N") in the opening post look suspiciously alike those you have observed by measuring a kit implementation of the earlier ESS ES9018 in one of your video ?

Don't forget @VintageFlanker is located in Paris, France, where electrical distribution is 230V 50Hz.

Some non-50Hz-multiple spikes (35, 40 Hz ?) are questioning though.

By the way, I suppose there is a reason why the american IMD SMPTE is usually performed for 60Hz+7kHz, while the german IMD DIN standard is usually 250Hz+8kHz. The highest signal component is, in both cases, a multiple of the mains frequency.

 

[Scytales]

Don't forget @VintageFlanker is located in Paris, France, where electrical distribution is 230V 50Hz.

Some non-50Hz-multiple spikes (35, 40 Hz ?) are questioning though.

I do not forget : I'm myself a Frenchman.

The problem jipihorn identified was primarily due to full-wave rectified power supply residue. Full-wave rectification from 50 Hz mains produces 100 Hz.

That being said, the presence of 35 and 40 Hz spurious frequencies is puzzling because, as you wrote, these frequencies aren't harmonically related to mains frequency.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Just a quick update, on this:

They’re data advertising the chip not the system now I understand.

Nobody noticed how the wording of Atoll specifications is. They don't say that the DAC 200 has these numbers, but the SABRE ES9028PRO chipset...

Well, it depends... At some places, they 100% imply that these are technical data of the (finished) DAC, not the chip:

I just packed the Atoll DAC200, and found a different manual in its box... This says absolutely clearly that specs are for the finished DAC. Data still "subject to change".
Now, they talk about "THD"...

I don't know what to say... Anyway, it leaves tomorrow. So long.

 

[Mikycoud]

I don't know what to say... Anyway, it leaves tomorrow. So long.

Sending it back? Your choice mate, but I'm pretty sure you'll soon be sorry you did, for you may, in the long run, realise your other Dacs lack "character" compared to your Atoll experience ;-)
Anyhow, I'll get the 300 up and ready, just in case your fingers get itchy soon, lol...
Great review though, my hat off to you !

 

[VintageFlanker]

Sending it back? Your choice mate, but I'm pretty sure you'll soon be sorry you did, for you may, in the long run, realise your other Dacs lack "character" compared to your Atoll experience ;-)
Anyhow, I'll get the 300 up and ready, just in case your fingers get itchy soon, lol...
Great review though, my hat off to you !

So, you have registered, finally... Welcome aboard!

Thanks again for the loan, mate !