Atmos and production quality of home movie releases in general

[Jbrunwa]

I have been planning a 6 speaker Atmos upgrade and am having second thoughts after watching this anecdotal review of the poor quality of Atmos sound engineering of home releases of several popular movies. I know that I have been disappointed with blu-ray disc purchases, where conversion to blu-ray format provided no value. There has been some discussion on ASR about Atmos audio and how studios may just be pushing content through with the Atmos label with poor quality. Are there any sites that provide objective reviews of the video and audio engineering of home releases, either video or audio? Is Atmos worth the investment for the home theater?

youtu.be/Nx4vve3UGUg

 

[AdamG]

I have been planning a 6 speaker Atmos upgrade and am having second thoughts after watching this anecdotal review of the poor quality of Atmos sound engineering of home releases of several popular movies. I know that I have been disappointed with blu-ray disc purchases, where conversion to blu-ray format provided no value. There has been some discussion on ASR about Atmos audio and how studios may just be pushing content through with the Atmos label with poor quality. Are there any sites that provide objective reviews of the video and audio engineering of home releases, either video or audio? Is Atmos worth the investment for the home theater?

youtu.be/Nx4vve3UGUg

Here are sore resources to investigate your questions about quality of sound in movies:
https://www.avsforum.com/forums/official-avs-forum®-blu-ray-disc-reviews.187/

This thread is about the Bass in movies but also audio reviews in general as well:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-ultimate-list-of-bass-in-movies-w-frequency-charts.2763785/

FWIW, I think building a home ATMOS capable system is absolutely worth it. It was one of the most beneficial upgrades I have ever done. Bar none! But I love watching Movies and the home version of Atmos is incredible and changes the way you immerse yourself in the experience. It was and is worth every penny and hour invested. Bonus is using the same setup for multi-channel, DTS and Atmos Music.

While it is true not all home movie mixes are equal. There are some turds out there. But the gems far outweigh the crap. Tenet is one of the most recent Major Turds. So skip this movie. The sound is beyond terrible.

I would be happy to help try and answer your questions about this.

 

[Jbrunwa]

Here are sore resources to investigate your questions about quality of sound in movies:
https://www.avsforum.com/forums/official-avs-forum®-blu-ray-disc-reviews.187/

This thread is about the Bass in movies but also audio reviews in general as well:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-ultimate-list-of-bass-in-movies-w-frequency-charts.2763785/

FWIW, I think building a home ATMOS capable system is absolutely worth it. It was one of the most beneficial upgrades I have ever done. Bar none! But I love watching Movies and the home version of Atmos is incredible and changes the way you immerse yourself in the experience. It was and is worth every penny and hour invested. Bonus is using the same setup for multi-channel, DTS and Atmos Music.

While it is true not all home movie mixes are equal. There are some turds out there. But the gems far outweigh the crap. Tenet is one of the most recent Major Turds. So skip this movie. The sound is beyond terrible.

I would be happy to help try and answer your questions about this.

Thanks for the info and for sharing your perspective. That’s good to know. On the avsforum blu-ray review forum, of the 45 or so movies reviewed under the ATMOS heading, the vast majority scored over 90 out of 100, which makes me a little skeptical. Do you find that you more or less agree with their ATMOS ratings for movies you have watched?

We tried watching Tenet three times (without ATMOS) and could only stand it for about 15-20 minutes max.

 

[AdamG]

Thanks for the info and for sharing your perspective. That’s good to know. On the avsforum blu-ray review forum, of the 45 or so movies reviewed under the ATMOS heading, the vast majority scored over 90 out of 100, which makes me a little skeptical. Do you find that you more or less agree with their ATMOS ratings for movies you have watched?

We tried watching Tenet three times (without ATMOS) and could only stand it for about 15-20 minutes max.

Hi Jb,

Do I agree more or less with the AVS review scores? Generally yes I would. What I find the most enjoyable in Atmos/DTS-X movies is the Music! The musical score can make the average movie spectacular. One example is the movie “The Greatest Showman”. The Music and Dancing is the entertainment.

I have a suggestion. Try to find someone local who has a good Atmos system and try and get a demo visit. This will be really valuable to assisting with your decision. I am always open to giving any comers a demo. If you are ever in the area just shoot me a pm and we will make it happen.

There is a “Willing to Demo” thread at AVS broken down by location. Maybe go surf that thread and see if you can find someone local to you. Good luck!

 

[OdysseusG]

A counterargument- am buddies with a very active and tweak happy group of home theater enthusiasts locally. They cooked up a demo where they set a processor preset to play only the Atmos information and lined up a queue of well regarded Atmos demo scenes (Ready Player One, Mad Max Fury Road, Unbroken, Gravity, and so on). By and large there was comically little activity in the Atmos/heights. You'd have stuff like a bombastic fight scene with armies clashing and only hear quiet rustling and a bullet periodically whizz past. Underwhelming in the extreme, especially considering that with the full mix playing everything else would drown that out.

The only notable exception was Gravity, the last clip played. The initial event that kicks things off was stunning, probably the best use of surround sound I've ever heard. Good luck tracking down a copy of the Diamond Luxe edition with the Atmos track though. I've bought all the gear for 7.1.4 and just hadn't gotten around to installing the heights. Until that last clip I was ready to go home and sell off the heights and corresponding amp. As is it's more an investment in the potential of the format that I wouldn't recommend to most people who haven't already made the dive.

 

[Dion_Sinewave]

This thread is extremely relevant to me right now.. I’m just about to install 4 overheads for atmos in my 7.3 current setup.

I have been underwhelmed in the demonstrations I have heard in hi fi stores. yes I have a few discs that have a lot of discrete info for the surround channels but it’s really quite rare to hear them isn’t it? ( I have powerful surround speakers and am aware when there’re operating!)

Serious question: where does the information come from to create the Atmos extension to the 5.1 discrete tracks that are on the disc?
I have read much available info on the Dolby website + forums + wiki and understand the basic concept but a knowledgeable friend insists that Atmos/Auro3D/DTS-X is essentially marketing nonsense as there is no significant information to send signals to those additional channels.

Dolby says that ’meta data channel’ adds steering information to creat the objects and move them around but I am not sure that the HDMI can carry more than the 7.1 from the disc.

I would love to buy a Trinnov Altitude or Storm but these questions remain unanswered.

 

[Lawyrup843]

Games that support atmos (Xbox) it is very much worth it IMO. I will admit that a 5.2.2 setup would probably suffice and sound great as well. But if you got the $ and it’s not going to keep you from being financially stressed then just go all out. It’s worth it.

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

I went from 5.2 to 5.2.4, and so far, I think I would've gotten just as much enjoyment out of my theatre if I had stayed with the old speaker layout. I say this because I don't bother upmixing 5.1 or 7.1 content. Caveat is my room is very small and the distance to the top speakers is only 4-5 ft, though the angles are dolby spec.

The concurrent upgrade to 4k + HDR made a much bigger difference to me.

I'm looking to change the positioning (push them further forward and back from listening position) to see if it gets me more of that "bubble" of sound effect people speak of.

 

[Jbrunwa]

This thread is extremely relevant to me right now.. I’m just about to install 4 overheads for atmos in my 7.3 current setup.

I have been underwhelmed in the demonstrations I have heard in hi fi stores. yes I have a few discs that have a lot of discrete info for the surround channels but it’s really quite rare to hear them isn’t it? ( I have powerful surround speakers and am aware when there’re operating!)

Serious question: where does the information come from to create the Atmos extension to the 5.1 discrete tracks that are on the disc?
I have read much available info on the Dolby website + forums + wiki and understand the basic concept but a knowledgeable friend insists that Atmos/Auro3D/DTS-X is essentially marketing nonsense as there is no significant information to send signals to those additional channels.

Dolby says that ’meta data channel’ adds steering information to creat the objects and move them around but I am not sure that the HDMI can carry more than the 7.1 from the disc.

I would love to buy a Trinnov Altitude or Storm but these questions remain unanswered.

Glad I’m not alone.

I’m not familiar with the details but according to the below site, Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD hide the ATMOS data in the 5.1 or 7.1 bitstream and that only ATMOS capable decoders use it, otherwise it is ignored. I could be wrong and I’m sure someone will correct me if so, but as I understand, HDMI ARC does not have the bandwidth to transmit lossless ATMOS over TrueHD but if the device is capable it must convert to Dolby Digital Plus before sending the signal, only blu-ray and other non-ARC sources send ATMOS over TrueHD.

https://developer.dolby.com/blog/dolby-audio-over-hdmi-part-1-codecs/

EDIT: HDMI 2.1 with e-ARC has the bandwidth to transmit lossless audio over ARC.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The wonderful folks at Dolby. Always making sure you are one or two generations behind their latest and greatest format.

Anyone know which surround format will line up with reality the most accurately?

 

[Jbrunwa]

I must say that I’m underwhelmed by Atmos height speakers. I put up 4 height speakers for a 5.1.4 setup and since they are powered by a separate amp from the base layer I can just turn off the base layer amp to listen to the height speakers, and there really is very little content played in the dozen or so Atmos movies I’ve played, and most of it is ambient and low volume so contributes very little to the surround experience for me.

 

[Tom C]

I am currently running a 7.1 setup, and find this to be the case even for the R & L surrounds. Don’t think I’ve ever heard the surround backs.

 

[Darek Narozny]

Dear Colleagues,
I sent pictures of my room and ask you I have :
Denon av 2700H
Large front - Cervin vega E-310,
Central - Roth Oli30
The active subwoofer - the Cervin Vega 28sx - is just right
Rear surround - Sony SSB -1000
I want to hang the speakers from the ceiling -
just advise where and if these speakers are ok and which?

• Quadral Phase A5
• DYNAVOICE
• Ref Magic FX-4 v.3
• ATMOS RAPTOR X WILSON
• Dolby Atmos Magnat ATM 202
• Polk Audio Reserve R900HT
• DALI Fazon Mikro Speaker Pair
• Heco 200M
• JAMO A500 or your suggestions

I am asking for opinions, do you know, is it worth it and which, why, maybe different?
If you advise me what speakers, help me with the topic or hanging them from the ceiling (e.g. 40 cm below is ok ? )
I am sending you a photo of the hanger
Sorry for my English
I am asking for advice
Thank you
Best Regards
Darius

 

[Dion_Sinewave]

I am currently running a 7.1 setup, and find this to be the case even for the R & L surrounds. Don’t think I’ve ever heard the surround backs.

I feel the same. i have large surround backs (Cantons with 2x 6.5in mid-bass drivers) and 200wrms per channel and can’t say I’ve ever heard them except for when I turn the front channels off and turn my chair around.
my next upgrade was intended to be 4x overheads for Atmos but now it seems like I’ll hardly notice them either?

 

[Dj7675]

I went from 5.2 to 5.2.4, and so far, I think I would've gotten just as much enjoyment out of my theatre if I had stayed with the old speaker layout. I say this because I don't bother upmixing 5.1 or 7.1 content. Caveat is my room is very small and the distance to the top speakers is only 4-5 ft, though the angles are dolby spec.

The concurrent upgrade to 4k + HDR made a much bigger difference to me.

I'm looking to change the positioning (push them further forward and back from listening position) to see if it gets me more of that "bubble" of sound effect people speak of.

Wondering if your atmos speakers were mounted on ceiling, or front wall/back wall? I have had them on the front wall and on ceiling at recommended locations for Dolby for top front and top rear and my experience was much better getting them on the ceiling and aiming at the listening position.

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

Wondering if your atmos speakers were mounted on ceiling, or front wall/back wall? I have had them on the front wall and on ceiling at recommended locations for Dolby for top front and top rear and my experience was much better getting them on the ceiling and aiming at the listening position.

They were on the ceiling. The mounts only allow a slight amount of toe-in, so they're still mostly pointed down at the floor.

I will be diy-ing up some new satellites for tops and surrounds in the near future, so I will consider building in the correct angle with slanted baffles.