No, but it doesn't matter.Did you have an audition of one of the 3way?
Doesn't matter how it sounds if there is no data to try to figure out why it sounds like this.
No, but it doesn't matter.Did you have an audition of one of the 3way?
You cannot see the magic through the measurements!! buddy !No, but it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter how it sounds if there is no data to try to figure out why it sounds like this.
No, but it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter how it sounds if there is no data to try to figure out why it sounds like this.
This is the magic you see from the best measuring speaker is this flat or not?You cannot see the magic through the measurements!! buddy !
Sterling sound is not a little home studio. Everybody can verify the credits of the ME working in this studio with ATC speakers.Then there is a lot of pro's not using ATC. Look at Dave Pensado and his studio facility he did a tour of. I could be wrong but I do not recall seeing a single ATC speaker there. That was amongst other in the facility to.
Just because GS Board says something doesn't mean much as I see so many so called pro's on their posting all day. I would think if you are so busy with clients the message board wouldn't be so popular. We can also take from GS a certain Mastering Engineer who swears by tubes, homopathy, cables, etc and he even has Grammy awards. In short GS is just opinions and fan boys with a few exceptions of people who mostly stop participating. Again let us not make this board that.
From what I see here so far ATC measures objectively not great.
There has been no evidence to the contrary.
Heresy (someone said) does not change that.
I welcome objective data to the contrary but outside of that it is just all opinions I am afraid.
watch
I wonder which is the most popular Genelecs or ATCs in most professional studiosSterling sound is not a little home studio. Everybody can verify the credits of the ME working in this studio with ATC speakers.
Philippe Tessier du Cros use ATC.
Mastering Engineer Matt Colton Relies On ATC 3-Way Active Reference Monitors - ProSoundWeb
Installs pair of SCM150ASL PRO monitors in his critical listening room at the new Alchemy Mastering in West Londonwww.prosoundweb.com
The choice of speakers in a big structure is financial: the big discount. This is happened in Radio France when they move from Cabasse to ATC.
Looking around quite a few studio's have both.I wonder which is the most popular Genelecs or ATCs in most professional studios
So you are bringing nothing more to this again besides name dropping. Clearly there’s nothing to discuss anymore with this subject and your agenda so I will remove myself from conversation with you. Anyone else with objective evidence I will watch for though.Sterling sound is not a little home studio. Everybody can verify the credits of the ME working in this studio with ATC speakers.
Philippe Tessier du Cros use ATC.
Mastering Engineer Matt Colton Relies On ATC 3-Way Active Reference Monitors - ProSoundWeb
Installs pair of SCM150ASL PRO monitors in his critical listening room at the new Alchemy Mastering in West Londonwww.prosoundweb.com
The choice of speakers in a big structure is financial: the big discount. This is happened in Radio France when they move from Cabasse to ATC.
Just as a wild guessing from hundreds of photos I have seen I would say 2-way KRKs in home studios and NS-10 in pro studios (probably more then Genelec and ATC together) so lets all buy KRKs and NS-10.I wonder which is the most popular Genelecs or ATCs in most professional studios
I'm not disputing your post in general, but for this thread in particular, we should remember the predictions you mention are about normal listeners, in normal living rooms, with mass market domestic equipment aimed at reproduction. We should try to quantify whether - and if so, why and how - pro monitoring systems need different strengths, possibly at the cost of different weaknesses, because they're aimed at production. I have lived in both worlds, and have found each to have its own demands.In 2021 we have good science which can even predict the subjective rating with surprising accuracy from a spinorama.
We have seen a change in the last decades of studio environments becoming less acoustically damped as also the monitors got better (as can be read in Tooles book) so the difference between both becomes rather smaller which is actually helpful if we want to minimise the audio's circle of confusion problem. Personally I would rather have a neutral monitor in the studio too and introduce some EQ like a magnifying lens on demand when needed to check some regions in detail. On the other hand experienced pros do often the best results with equipment they are used to and a good pro with medium hardware gives usually a better result than vise versa (same also in any job, hobby or sports) and in the end the discussion can get also a bit philosophical. To come back to the topic I really like the sound of ATC loudspeakers but on the other side also don't like the hype on them as in 2021 its not black magic like it used to be for most of us in the 90s, thank you science and its easy and broad availability for that.I'm not disputing your post in general, but for this thread in particular, we should remember the predictions you mention are about normal listeners, in normal living rooms, with mass market domestic equipment aimed at reproduction. We should try to quantify whether - and if so, why and how - pro monitoring systems need different strengths, possibly at the cost of different weaknesses, because they're aimed at production. I have lived in both worlds, and have found each to have its own demands.
I kinda wonder the same thing.Although I don't deliberately do so myself, I do sometimes wonder if there's merit in mixing with more midrange, such as the upper-mid pushes we see on some high end studio monitors across various frequencies. By that I mostly mean that while it might not create the perfect spectral balance overall, it might show up mismatch and confict issues often exist in such frequencies. Dunno...
+1I kinda wonder the same thing.
Almost all of the audio science I've read about only deals with listener preference. Under blind conditions. I'm very confident that most folks would prefer a more neutral Genelec/Neumann loudspeaker over a more mid forward ATC loudspeaker. That said, the job of a studio monitor is not necessarily to sound "best"(most pleasurable), but rather to "best reveal flaws in the mix". If other ATC monitors also measure mid forward, I could see where that might make it easier to hear flaws within that range. It also makes it harder to hear bass/treble flaws, but I do tend to think the midrange is the most important frequency. Totally guessing here, but I could see where a mid centric monitor like an ATC might be good for mixing. Mastering I would think it's different. For mastering, I would think you want as neutral as possible. All that said, I'm not a mix/master engineer . I listen purely for pleasure. Of course, mixing on a mid centric monitor contributes to the circle of confusion, but I'd hope those differences are fixed during mastering.
I didn't love ATCs overall, but totally, totally agree about the mid clarity. It really is a thing. I'm a witness. I think ASR should try to figure out why. Which measurements are relevant to the issue, and which aren't?
Is way easier hear the mid with that boost, some people just say they like the mid centric presentation with that small peak in the top end (the fun fact, its the mid centric presentation its pretty consistent from ATC)Looking at the data, I think it's pretty obvious why ATC has such great mid clarity. The speaker has relatively good (not great) directivity, and the midrange is turned up 2-3dB over the rest of the spectrum. For that reason, the midrange stands out more than it does on other (more neutral speakers). You could get the same mid clarity by turning the KH310 mid dome up by 2-3dB.
This is where I am, pretty much. The objective evidence we have so far suggests that ATC is decent, but nowhere near Genelec/Neumann. Individual subjective impressions are meaningless, given the biases of the human brain. But, a great measurement of one of their more modern active speakers could change my mind. Would love to see a SCM150 measured!From what I see here so far ATC measures objectively not great.
There has been no evidence to the contrary.
Heresy (someone said) does not change that.
This is the pivotal sentence in the debate. All three speakers can be accurately described by measurement. Their measurements can be compared against a standard. One will be the closest match, and the other two will be less close.The objective evidence we have so far suggests that ATC is decent, but nowhere near Genelec/Neumann.
But, a great measurement of one of their more modern active speakers could change my mind.
What are the biases of a human brain that is not biased by brand , appearance, measurements. Say the complete opposite to us here . One that play's a lot of musical instruments and listens to live unamplified up close and at distance and they say a particular speaker sounds more real ? Some people do not care what a speaker looks like. Same as I don't care about cars but I know I can be shocked by a high spec small car after a drive just friends cars . Most people are aware that small speakers can sound big these days heck all my girlfriends in the past have and really don't care about my speakers but some who play instruments and sing have commented about attributes of my speakers that are better one to the other and funnily they shared a lot of the same opinion as myself when I asked what they thought so no manipulation or suggestion to help them . So maybe there are things we don't fully understand. I don't want to go down the Genelec vs ATC path because I don't need to but I do like both a lot. But in saying that I have just moved my 8341s for either bigger Gen or ExMachina. I'm to up in the crypto universe with current bullrun. Buy crypto guy's and buy your dream speakers .This is where I am, pretty much. The objective evidence we have so far suggests that ATC is decent, but nowhere near Genelec/Neumann. Individual subjective impressions are meaningless, given the biases of the human brain. But, a great measurement of one of their more modern active speakers could change my mind. Would love to see a SCM150 measured!
If there are any owners out there, I'd be willing to chip in for shipping.