ATC speakers / Monitors

[black_flag]

Could you also measure them approximately in the middle between the mid and tweeter, as maybe then they will measure smoother?

Sure, but no-one's going to like the results.

Myself included, I'm moving my speakers up 50mm as we speak.

 

[thewas]

Thank you, had hoped that there would be an angle were the results get smoother, especially that dip at 10 kHz.

 

[TimVG]

Thank you, had hoped that there would be an angle were the results get smoother, especially that dip at 10 kHz.

Possibly in the horizontal plane..

 

[Pearljam5000]

Just saw this on Facebook, asked the guy what is that fabric , he said :
" felt to eliminate diffractions".
Does it make any sense?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Just saw this on Facebook, asked the guy what is that fabric , he said :
" felt to eliminate diffractions".
Does it make any sense?
View attachment 94041

Yep, it makes sense, at least near the tweeter. I doubt that felt around the woofer is helping much of anything. And it may not always be for the best, since the existing diffraction effects may have been incorporated into the crossover.

 

[Vintage57]

Dunlavy used to do something similar.

 

[tw99]

A pretty good Q&A session with Ben Lilly from ATC here:

It's an honest session where he talks about the company's design philosophy, and pretty much no BS when asked about some audiophile tweaks. They seem to be happy to keep doing what they're doing, making as much as possible in house and not relying on OEM electronics, hence unlikely to be looking at DSP or Class D any time soon.

I guess one can disagree with their approach and pricing, but I like the fact that they're very up front about what they're doing, and the relative lack of audiophile BS is refreshing.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Interesting comparison of the passive and active versions of SCM50

 

[Chrise36]

I'll do you one better. Measurements of the current ultimate special edition of the SCM150: the EL150 ASL.

View attachment 92745

Compare to a state-of-the-art speaker on the same test setup (disregard demonstrably inaudible ultrasonic behaviour, pre-empting the strawman here):

View attachment 92746

I heard the Kii and i like the ATC midrange better. It is the dome that makes the difference to my ears at least. Measurements is not everything.

 

[Ilkless]

I heard the Kii and i like the ATC midrange better. It is the dome that makes the difference to my ears at least. Measurements is not everything.

It's the dome that you saw, and the myth associated with it you knew that interacted with what you actually heard. Our auditory perception is inevitably tainted by non-acoustic cues in sighted conditions, so all it (at best) shows is the dome was inoffensive enough for the halo effect to fill in for the rest of it. Which is fine. Just recognise it for what it is, rather than attributing it solely to the audio output of the dome.

 

[Purité Audio]

We took on ATC, because when we first had Kii here, a few early listeners said,’ yes very nice but nothing compared to the ATC mid dome’, one pair of active 50s letter, ATCs mid superiority is just a myth.
I suspect the myth may have grown because the ATCs bass rolls off pretty early, hence perceptually more mid.
Keith

 

[Ilkless]

And Wilson and Lipinski, among others.

I've always wondered if there's some modern material that could absorb as well/better than felt for the frequencies needed, but is more uniform/stable/doesn't fuzz/doesn't pill.

 

[Chrise36]

No because the ATCs off-axis is so ragged in comparison.
Keith

It's the dome that you saw, and knew the myth associated with it that interacted with what you actually heard. Our auditory perception is inevitably tainted by non-acoustic cues in sighted conditions, so all it (at best) shows is the dome was inoffensive enough for the halo effect to fill in for the rest of it. Which is fine. Just recognise it for what it is, rather than attributing it solely to the audio output of the dome.

Not really because i heard some Reference TAD speakers which i thought were the best in the world and the ATC just sounded better.Their concept is to concentrate on the mid which is probably the best out there.They soft fabric tweeters with high roll off that does not sound harsh and also tight woofer. But the prices come from the name they made and they do not innovate any more.

 

[Chrise36]

We took on ATC, because when we first had Kii here, a few early listeners said,’ yes very nice but nothing compared to the ATC mid dome’, one pair of active 50s letter, ATCs mid superiority is just a myth.
I suspect the myth may have grown because the ATCs bass rolls off pretty early, hence perceptually more mid.
Keith

We took on ATC, because when we first had Kii here, a few early listeners said,’ yes very nice but nothing compared to the ATC mid dome’, one pair of active 50s letter, ATCs mid superiority is just a myth.
I suspect the myth may have grown because the ATCs bass rolls off pretty early, hence perceptually more mid.
Keith

There is no myth in this
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATC-SM75-150.htm

 

[Ilkless]

There is no myth in this
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATC-SM75-150.htm

What are you getting at? You say measurements are not everything, and then point to measurements of the ATC dome. Is it that they are "good enough" in engineering fundamentals (and therefore lack any truly objectionable property obvious in measurements) even though you concede they are not state-of-the-art, but ultimately have a euphonic quality unexplained by these measurements?

 

[andreasmaaan]

There is no myth in this
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATC-SM75-150.htm

Nicely linear and smooth off-axis, but 2.5% harmonic distortion at 88dB/600Hz rules it out of the running for best midrange IMHO.

EDIT: and 1.5% HD from c. 1kHz to 1.5kHz at 88dB places it well behind the best midrange drivers, too.

 

[Chrise36]

What are you getting at? You say measurements are not everything, and then point to measurements of the ATC dome. Is it that they are "good enough" in engineering fundamentals (and therefore lack any truly objectionable property obvious in measurements) even though you concede they are not state-of-the-art, but ultimately have a euphonic quality unexplained by these measurements?

I am saying the midrange is an excellent unit it is not myth and the midrange does give the speaker its character. And of course measurements is not everything Amir has shown this in many reviews. He did not like many good measuring speakers. In the end it comes down to personal taste.

 

[Chrise36]

Nicely linear and smooth off-axis, but 2.5% harmonic distortion at 88dB/600Hz rules it out of the running for best midrange IMHO.

EDIT: and 1.5% HD from c. 1kHz to 1.5kHz at 88dB places it well behind the best midrange drivers, too.

Which would be?

 

[Scholl]

Nicely linear and smooth off-axis, but 2.5% harmonic distortion at 88dB/600Hz rules it out of the running for best midrange IMHO.

EDIT: and 1.5% HD from c. 1kHz to 1.5kHz at 88dB places it well behind the best midrange drivers, too.

HD always seems to be a bit high in Troels's driver tests in my opinion. Here on Jeff Bagby's review of the same driver, HD does not go higher than -60dB in its operating range.

While I agree that ATC are generally overhyped, especially on Gearslutz (not as much as Amphion though), I still think this a very good driver for a mid-dome, albeit too large. For instance, Ilkless has often compared it to the Neumann mid-dome, which may have even better HD in its operating range. But we have to remember that the Neumann mid is crossed significantly higher than the ATC. 650Hz on the KH310, 570Hz on the KH420 (helped by the waveguide boost). The ATC mid is always crossed at 380Hz. Which means that, for the same SPL, the ATC mid will require around three times the excursion. As seen in Jeff Bagby's test, the very good performance of the ATC driver in the low-mids is what sets it apart from other comparable mid-domes.

Whether crossing the mid driver as low as 380Hz or using a mid-dome in the first place is a good idea is another debate.

 

[stevenswall]

I like the fact that they're very up front about what they're doing, and the relative lack of audiophile BS is refreshing.

Pretending in house stuff is somehow magically better and turning up one's nose at off the shelf components that would improve the speakers is audiophile BS, just like tuning by ear and guessing and checking with a crossover or purposefully using a 1st order crossover just for marketing is BS.