ATC speakers / Monitors

[Gregg Hermetech]

You might want to revisit your link?

There was an issue when you reposted it here:
View attachment 270509


As seen on that gearslutz thread:

View attachment 270510

Cheers, yeah, two whole pages of that thread got deleted by mods, so the link now no longer points to the right post (which is also no longer there). It's a shame as it was a really great post, but I can understand Thomas not wanting to be dragged down into the mire.

 

[Puddingbuks]

I knew gearspace as a junkhole

Their namechange from gearslutz says it all. Oh no, let’s not offend anyone, and have no fun whatsoever.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I got removed from the thread and banned for providing my opinions on the product, which questioned things like it's price and some design choices.

We are happy to read your opinions on the product, if you want to share it.

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

We are happy to read your opinions on the product, if you want to share it.

Nothing too crazy. Asked them how they justify their price point when compared to their competitors. They are asking a ton for the new model here. I asked why they seems totally uninterested in DSP despite it's benefits and wide spread adoption. I asked if they'd be interested in implementing DSP in the future. I talked about subs and multi sub.

Their response was basically "do your own thing and ignore fads" which was disappointing. They think DSP is a fad, that's cute. Rest of the comments are embarrassing.

 

[dfuller]

Nothing too crazy. Asked them how they justify their price point when compared to their competitors. They are asking a ton for the new model here. I asked why they seems totally uninterested in DSP despite it's benefits and wide spread adoption. I asked if they'd be interested in implementing DSP in the future. I talked about subs and multi sub.

Their response was basically "do your own thing and ignore fads" which was disappointing. They think DSP is a fad, that's cute. Rest of the comments are embarrassing.

I would just ignore anything Brad Lunde says, he's kind of useless.

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

Easy to ignore when you get removed lol.

I did actually notice that my infractions do have posts referenced. Here's one that got me 3 points added to my other 3 points and now my account doesn't work right. I don't see any sort of ban notification but I can't post and half the sites features are blocked out. There are some shockingly stupid people over there.

 

[Purité Audio]

It is odd to become so emotionally involved in a particular make of hi-fi component, limited to men do you suppose?
Keith

 

[Avp1]

Nothing too crazy. Asked them how they justify their price point when compared to their competitors. They are asking a ton for the new model here. I asked why they seems totally uninterested in DSP despite it's benefits and wide spread adoption. I asked if they'd be interested in implementing DSP in the future. I talked about subs and multi sub.

Their response was basically "do your own thing and ignore fads" which was disappointing. They think DSP is a fad, that's cute. Rest of the comments are embarrassing.

Adding DSP will alnost surely limit useful lifespan of speaker to 5 years. After thay they cannot be supportable due to EOS of chip and core software maker. This is less than ATC warranty. ATC is too small to order custom chip production run if OEM retire them. Analogue circuit can be repaired 30 years from now. Thus they likely think that if you need DSP, you can use one outside of speaker. I do use Dyrac Live processor with SCM100A to correct some room anomalies in bass. I have no problem with it being external to speakers. In other (better) rooms people may not need it and rely on passive measures. I am well aware of anything digital be disposable after 5 years, but do not want to write off $20K after speaker warranty ends, comparing to $2K worth processor I can afford to loose.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes that will be the reason, ATC prefer their chips with liberal amounts of salt and vinegar .
Keith

 

[Deleted member 57422]

Classy.
Feels like the teens rejected on Gearslutz found a new home.
I actually find it cute

 

[goat76]

I like @Alpha Audio listening tests and their subjective explanations of what they hear, and the fact that they try to avoid ranking the speakers because everyone has different tastes when it comes to sound. I think that got much to do with the fact that there are no perfect speakers out there and all speakers have their strong points and their weak points, and we all as individual listeners appreciate and rank these different aspects differently, we can accept some weaknesses of the speakers if some other sound aspects align better with our individual taste.

When the "listening panel" at Alpha Audio explains what sound aspects they appreciate about the ATC speaker in the following video I completely understand what they mean. The strong points of ATC speakers are that they can handle dense and complex music mixes without ever losing it, and they reproduce the layering of the different sound objects in the mix in a way that many other speakers fail to do. ATC speakers surely have their weaknesses, but for some of us a listener who rank other sound aspects higher, ATC speakers tick the overall sound extremely well.

This is the last of 3 long videos in a listening test they did of stand-mount speakers for the price of around 2500€. I didn't pay that much attention to the actual listening to the speakers (because of the obvious downfalls of such a test over a Youtube video) and I did fast-forward the videos for those parts. But it's interesting to hear their take on how they perceive the sound of the different speakers in the same environment, and hear what they like and don't like about the sound aspects of the different speakers. I think that is both interesting and entertaining at the same time.

The KEF R3 Meta seems to have some ups and downs, and I got intrigued to hear some of the Audio Physic speakers sometimes which I think would suit my taste.

 

[Avp1]

I like @Alpha Audio listening tests and their subjective explanations of what they hear, and the fact that they try to avoid ranking the speakers because everyone has different tastes when it comes to sound. I think that got much to do with the fact that there are no perfect speakers out there and all speakers have their strong points and their weak points, and we all as individual listeners appreciate and rank these different aspects differently, we can accept some weaknesses of the speakers if some other sound aspects align better with our individual taste.

When the "listening panel" at Alpha Audio explains what sound aspects they appreciate about the ATC speaker in the following video I completely understand what they mean. The strong points of ATC speakers are that they can handle dense and complex music mixes without ever losing it, and they reproduce the layering of the different sound objects in the mix in a way that many other speakers fail to do. ATC speakers surely have their weaknesses, but for some of us a listener who rank other sound aspects higher, ATC speakers tick the overall sound extremely well.

This is the last of 3 long videos in a listening test they did of stand-mount speakers for the price of around 2500€. I didn't pay that much attention to the actual listening to the speakers (because of the obvious downfalls of such a test over a Youtube video) and I did fast-forward the videos for those parts. But it's interesting to hear their take on how they perceive the sound of the different speakers in the same environment, and hear what they like and don't like about the sound aspects of the different speakers. I think that is both interesting and entertaining at the same time.

The KEF R3 Meta seems to have some ups and downs, and I got intrigued to hear some of the Audio Physic speakers sometimes which I think would suit my taste.

I do not see the point in adding ATC into this mix. The key distinction of ATC is their mid-range dome. It is NOT present in speakers which were tested. Simply accept that ATC speakers are not cheap. A pair of mid dome drivers costs more than speakers price limit for that testing. If they did compare SCM25, SCM45 or SCM50 with similar in size other brands, it would make much more sense. I do not think people buy SCM11 for anything other than surround duty.

 

[goat76]

I do not see the point in adding ATC into this mix. The key distinction of ATC is their mid-range dome. It is NOT present in speakers which were tested. Simply accept that ATC speakers are not cheap. A pair of mid dome drivers costs more than speakers price limit for that testing. If they did compare SCM25, SCM45 or SCM50 with similar in size other brands, it would make much more sense. I do not think people buy SCM11 for anything other than surround duty.

The ATC speaker was not meant to be part of this test from the beginning but two other brands didn't send in their speaker, as I understand it. Alpha Audio then contacted ATC to get at least one more speaker for the test, but as the SCM19 was too expensive for the price point of the test they decided to go with the smaller SCM11 and ATC had no problem with that.

I don't really understand why you think the SCM11 shouldn't be in the test. In the end, 3 out of 4 guys choose it as their favorite over the KEF R3 Meta, the Elac Vela BS403, and the Monitor Audio Gold 100 so it was clearly at the same level as the other speakers in the test (and still one of the cheaper ones as well).

 

[DSJR]

In our price ranges buying small actives from pro suppliers or directrly, the SCM11 is quite expensive and passive too... In the realms of domestic audio dealers and offering a competitive dealer margin, they're actually rather good and although I heard them at different times, I'd venture to suggest the 11's are beter balanced than the now dated 19's in any form

 

[Pearljam5000]

Why ATC is not sending an SCM50 to Amir is beyond me

 

[DSJR]

Why ATC is not sending an SCM50 to Amir is beyond me

Oh don't be silly! Amir's too far away, the 50's are expensive either in inferior passive form or (good to me) active version, they weigh a ton each and do they really need the publicity? They've been measured here and in active form at least, thery're not wanting even if our favourites here steal a march on them in terms of tech...

I agree that DSP could be dangerous if the chips and so on only have a short marketing life. ATC I believe are a smaller concern these days, so need to budget carefully methinks.

 

[Berlin]

In our price ranges buying small actives from pro suppliers or directrly, the SCM11 is quite expensive and passive too... In the realms of domestic audio dealers and offering a competitive dealer margin, they're actually rather good and although I heard them at different times, I'd venture to suggest the 11's are beter balanced than the now dated 19's in any form

I have had the 11s and the (passive) 40s - subjectively I preferred the sound of the 11s. Objectively, the 11s had a more linear frequency response than the 40s at my listening position. The 40s have a clear dip at around 3500 Hz...

 

[DSJR]

I was stunned (not in a good way) when I heard passive 40's. They just confirmed why ATC back in the day didn't promote their passive three ways at all and I'm going to say it, my vintage Crown driven Harbeth SHL5's from 2007 are far more open to the music in terms of hearing a little more into the recording and venue/production if it's there in the first place, as the 40's in passive mode just presented a flat-wall 2-D kind of presentation even with a powerful amp which i don't remember the 45A's ever doing. The previous passive only 35's benefitted a little from bi-amping (it only needed to be Quad 606 style amps from the used market), but after a couple of weeks previously hearing an up to date active three way at not too different a price in the same room, just showed me at any rate just how far things have come. Sad this, as I reckon some ATC models (such as lavishly veneered passive 150 towers in the far east)are being bought on brand reputation in the same way an amplifier brand from Salisbury is these days - and people are prepared to pay the money as well

I'm waking up to it, while still holding a brightly lit torch for the 100ASL's I still love so much, but this is now and others have come along since doing good things. Sadly, domestic consumers aren't really going to hear the benefits of modern active systems unless Dynaudio can make some inroads with blinkered dealers selling established 'upgrade ladders' and maybe Harbeth in the future as and when their DSP actives happen (the Harbeth 'D' boxes will reportedly be similar layout to the current passives I gather but going active with proper filters apparently removes a slight 'subjective fog' from their speaker systems even with nothing else changed - baby steps so as not to frighten the faithful too much).

 

[Tovarich007]

Just of few comments about DSP.

Ok, DSPs are cheap and nowadays enough powerful enough to do extremely performing things in filtering and EQ.
But there are some drawbacks :

- latency : it has become begnin for recording or listening music but it's still one for HT and some professionnal applications in mixing and post production ;
- long term usefullness in case of obsolency of chips or software can be questionned as weel.

ATC is not the only maker not to have implemented DSPs, PSI is another one, and Neumman is mstill making yet several good models without DSP.
It is possible to get very good results in filtering and phase control in active speakers thru analog circuitry. But this costs more and is way more complex to design than DSPs.

 

[goat76]

I was stunned (not in a good way) when I heard passive 40's. They just confirmed why ATC back in the day didn't promote their passive three ways at all and I'm going to say it, my vintage Crown driven Harbeth SHL5's from 2007 are far more open to the music in terms of hearing a little more into the recording and venue/production if it's there in the first place, as the 40's in passive mode just presented a flat-wall 2-D kind of presentation even with a powerful amp which i don't remember the 45A's ever doing. The previous passive only 35's benefitted a little from bi-amping (it only needed to be Quad 606 style amps from the used market), but after a couple of weeks previously hearing an up to date active three way at not too different a price in the same room, just showed me at any rate just how far things have come. Sad this, as I reckon some ATC models (such as lavishly veneered passive 150 towers in the far east)are being bought on brand reputation in the same way an amplifier brand from Salisbury is these days - and people are prepared to pay the money as well

I'm waking up to it, while still holding a brightly lit torch for the 100ASL's I still love so much, but this is now and others have come along since doing good things. Sadly, domestic consumers aren't really going to hear the benefits of modern active systems unless Dynaudio can make some inroads with blinkered dealers selling established 'upgrade ladders' and also, or maybe Harbeth as and when their DSP actives happen (the Harbeth 'D' boxes will reportedly be similar layout to the current passives I gather but going active with proper filters apparently removes a slight 'subjective fog' from their speaker systems even with nothing else changed - baby steps so as not to frighten the faithful too much).

I say this again, you simply had a bad demo with either a bad setup or broken passive 40s, or the particular music material they played for you at that single demo simply had no depth.

The three-dimensionality, layering, and ability to separate the sound objects in the mix are simply astonishing, the best I've heard from a pair of speakers, that's a very important aspect for me as I'm using my speakers for mixing the music I make. That's why I know it was clearly something funky going on with the demo you had and the speakers did simply underperform. I'm sure it has happened to you sometimes with other speakers you know very well that they don't always perform that great depending on the setup. The same speaker will simply not go from having a lousy 2-D kind of presentation to having a three-dimensional sound just by going from passive to active, that's not how it works.

Maybe you have noticed that I have participated in a lot threads here at ASR about stereo image, sound stage, and depth of recordings. The reason for that is that it’s one of the most important qualities I seek in a speaker, and that's also one of the reasons why I think the ATC SCM40 is such a great speaker.

I would have loved to give you a proper demo of my passive 40s if we lived closer to each other.