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ATC speakers / Monitors

SoundGuy

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Wow.

Most forums are full of questions and grateful appreciation for experienced user answers and opinions. Only too glad to have an expert like Northward join a discussion and share their extensive experience.

Not here.

This site is being overrun by a pack of angry grumpy closed-mind know it alls. I suspect that those with real actual experience are being driven away by all the dismissive condescending attitudes. Why share anything in such an environment?

Reminds me of the society for putting things on top of other things…there seems no purpose to it all other than to feel smug about it.
 

Blockader

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Wow.

Most forums are full of questions and grateful appreciation for experienced user answers and opinions. Only too glad to have an expert like Northward join a discussion and share their extensive experience.

Not here.

This site is being overrun by a pack of angry grumpy closed-mind know it alls. I suspect that those with real actual experience are being driven away by all the dismissive condescending attitudes. Why share anything in such an environment?

Reminds me of the society for putting things on top of other things…there seems no purpose to it all other than to feel smug about it.
do not expect me to feel sorry for not appreciating experience over evidence based truth. If you have any information about why ATC soft domes with no waveguides and significant spdi roll off in HF should sound more accurate than, say, Neumann KH 150's tweeter let us know. "I trust my ears and my ears tell me so. I have 20 years of experience* does not count as a viable information. Most of us got bored of nonsense of so called audiophiles or misinformed *industry experts*, I believe we are in ASR because people who make claims out of their *sses are not well appreciated here.
 
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SoundGuy

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do not expect me to feel sorry for not appreciating experience over evidence based truth. If you have any information about why ATC soft domes with no waveguides and significant spdi roll off in HF should sound more accurate than, say, Neumann KH 150's tweeter let us know. "I trust my ears and my ears tell me so. I have 20 years of experience* does not count as a viable information. Most of us got bored of nonsense of so called audiophiles or misinformed *industry experts*, I believe we are in ASR because people who make claims out of their *ss are not well appreciated here.
You made my point perfectly. I could not have proved my point better than you have done yourself. Thank you.
 

Frgirard

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Wow.

Most forums are full of questions and grateful appreciation for experienced user answers and opinions. Only too glad to have an expert like Northward join a discussion and share their extensive experience.

Not here.

This site is being overrun by a pack of angry grumpy closed-mind know it alls. I suspect that those with real actual experience are being driven away by all the dismissive condescending attitudes. Why share anything in such an environment?

Reminds me of the society for putting things on top of other things…there seems no purpose to it all other than to feel smug about it.
Share his know-how?
Northward knows very well that without disclosing his know-how, his interventions will be anecdotal.
For ATC, it is clear that there is something to hide given the stubbornness not to publish measurements such as other brands like Genelec or Neumann do.

You arrogate to yourself the beautiful role but full of vacuum and vanity.
 

goat76

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I wrote above my opinion about those excuses, of course he is under no obligation, on other hand we are luckily also free to discuss here discrepancies from bold statements and lack of hard facts.
I don't get it. What exactly is it that makes you question Northward Acoustics' knowledge of room acoustic and professional studio speaker installations?

The people who hire them to do these installations are highly dependent on the sound quality to make a satisfying and good job for their clients, otherwise, they will lose their customers. And if the studios were dissatisfied in any way with the end result with the room acoustics, or the speakers used for the installation, they wouldn't promote these rooms and installations as being good and would have done something about it.

Don't underestimate the people working with audio, if they don't like what they hear they can't do their job day in, day out.
 
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Frgirard

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Don't underestimate the people working with audio, if they don't like what they hear they can't do their job day in, day out.
How many masterise following the loudness war doxa and hate what they hear ?

I hope many. What comes out of Sterling Sound and other ear-stuffing factories is sonic disaster.
All that money to do that.

How many times have I heard pro and home studios say: I hate the sound of this speaker but it tells me the truth....
 

goat76

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How many masterise following the loudness war doxa and hate what they hear ?

I hope many. What comes out of Sterling Sound and other ear-stuffing factories is sonic disaster.
All that money to do that.

How many times have I heard pro and home studios say: I hate the sound of this speaker but it tells me the truth....
They do what the client wants them to do, "make it louder". Or do you really think the mastering engineers are the dictators of the whole music industry and got some sort of power making their own decisions against the client's will?
 

Frgirard

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you forgot what you wrote "Don't underestimate the people working with audio, if they don't like what they hear they can't do their job day in, day out."

the mastering operators are like the conductor: totally interchangeable. Maybe that's why they think they're gods.
 

goat76

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you forgot what you wrote "Don't underestimate the people working with audio, if they don't like what they hear they can't do their job day in, day out."

the mastering operators are like the conductor: totally interchangeable. Maybe that's why they think they're gods.
It still stands. They are good at what they do and you should not underestimate their skills and their knowledge, but that doesn't mean they necessarily like what they have to do to the audio to satisfy their clients will.
 

Frgirard

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i can not underestimate the zero.

Steve Wilson :
"I think people have been brainwashed a lot over the years that mastering engineers do something magical, almost like a black hat, and I think, actually, mastering is not necessary."


For Sterling Sound members, anything trendy is good. It used to be b&w now it's ATC.

in many little labels, they do themself.
 

Jaxjax

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do not expect me to feel sorry for not appreciating experience over evidence based truth. If you have any information about why ATC soft domes with no waveguides and significant spdi roll off in HF should sound more accurate than, say, Neumann KH 150's tweeter let us know. "I trust my ears and my ears tell me so. I have 20 years of experience* does not count as a viable information. Most of us got bored of nonsense of so called audiophiles or misinformed *industry experts*, I believe we are in ASR because people who make claims out of their *ss are not well appreciated here.
In the end ASR will die out just like every other forum that gets took over by nasty elitist's. ASR has already chased off many a fine pro & many more just don't post here because of the rep. Nothing wrong with a prop head forum but when all sub forms get attacked from all angles at all times with meaningless BS the main forum will die.
 

Blockader

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In the end ASR will die out just like every other forum that gets took over by nasty elitist's. ASR has already chased off many a fine pro & many more just don't post here because of the rep. Nothing wrong with a prop head forum but when all sub forms get attacked from all angles at all times with meaningless BS the main forum will die.
if you really care about ASR's future, we better stay on topic. For example we can talk about the new line of ATC subwoofers which have class AB amplification inside. Interesting indeed...
 
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goat76

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i can not underestimate the zero.

Steve Wilson :
"I think people have been brainwashed a lot over the years that mastering engineers do something magical, almost like a black hat, and I think, actually, mastering is not necessary."


For Sterling Sound members, anything trendy is good. It used to be b&w now it's ATC.

in many little labels, they do themself.
If you ask me what I personally think of mastering, then I can tell you that I don't think the mastering engineer should alter the sound of the tracks in any significant way. In a perfect-world scenario, the audio should only be sculptured in the mixing stage of the production, and the mastering engineer's job should just be a final quality check for faults like clicks and pops, song-to-song level adjustments, sorting out the gaps between songs, add the metadata, and just maybe do some very small EQ adjustments if that's necessary. In short - "mixing the album" and not much more than that.
 

dfuller

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if you really care about ASR's future, we better stay in topic. For example we can talk about the new line of ATC subwoofers which have class AB amplification inside. Interesting indeed...
Class H, I thought? That's what they've done in the past.
 

Frgirard

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In the end ASR will die out just like every other forum that gets took over by nasty elitist's. ASR has already chased off many a fine pro & many more just don't post here because of the rep. Nothing wrong with a prop head forum but when all sub forms get attacked from all angles at all times with meaningless BS the main forum will die.
ASR brings together people who are tired of the misguided science used by your pros.
Engineering, technology does not exist without measure. Unlike the alchemy.
 

Frgirard

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If you ask me what I personally think of mastering, then I can tell you that I don't think the mastering engineer should alter the sound of the tracks in any significant way. In a perfect-world scenario, the audio should only be sculptured in the mixing stage of the production, and the mastering engineer's job should just be a final quality check for faults like clicks and pops, song-to-song level adjustments, sorting out the gaps between songs, add the metadata, and just maybe do some very small EQ adjustments if that's necessary. In short - "mixing the album" and not much more than that.
I know all that. 15 tracks needs a half day.
 

TimVG

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Very fatiguing, high distortion levels for a pro monitor. Amp settings creating weird phase issues. Port noises. Too high discrepancies between drivers response from one unit to another making L/R drivers calibration very difficult.

First of all thank you for your contributions here.

Genuinely interested though in some hard data on these particular claims.

The only apples to apples comparison I have is from Anselm Goertz (S&R) on the similarly priced ATC 25 and Gelenec 1038CF.
While both loudspeakers perform well within their own design criteria it does appear the Genelec performs better in terms of frequency response, distortion and pair deviation.

1663398019118.png
 
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tuga

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Fully agree there, for studios though I would like to see a standardisation as its the only way to get out of audio's circle of confusion.

Sorting out this "audio's circle of confusion" cliché is a fantasy, even in the production stage let alone at domestic level.
Studios sound different, the best-performing speakers sound different (even over Youtube the Grimm LS1be, D&D 8C and ATC 100ASL on that famous comparison). Does it matter?
What a weird obsession...

For "documental" recordings of classical music the mics chosen for the recording and their distance to the sound source will set the tone, from them onwards it's all downhill.
And what about the close-mic'ed studio productions that are processed with effects and EQ to sound interesting, is there even a point in aiming for absolute fidelity when reproducing such a recording?
 
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tuga

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First of all thank you for your contributions here.

Genuinely interested though in some hard data on these particular claims.

The only apples to apples comparison I have is from Anselm Goertz (S&R) on the similarly priced ATC 25 and Gelenec 1038CF.
While both loudspeakers perform well within their own design criteria it does appear the Genelec performs better in terms of frequency response, distortion and pair deviation.

View attachment 231429

Do the Genelecs perform better in terms of distortion across the speactrum, or are you only looking at a simplified representation single-number?
 

TimVG

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Do the Genelecs perform better in terms of distortion across the speactrum, or are you only looking at a simplified representation single-number?

Since the distortion graph is included, which is not a single number, I'll leave interpretation up to you. I'm just honestly curious about the mentioned issues. I'm not here argue for or against either brand.
 
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