Unrelated, I would love it if one of the design engineers at ATC would chime in here.
Northward came to speak on this forum and only unpacked banalities.Unrelated, I would love it if one of the design engineers at ATC would chime in here.
Of course, rocket science is a very different sector than audio reproduction. Wondering why did you even mention this here?Every chain in the hifi system is important , sometimes the source or amplifiers have a big impact of the sound. This is not rocket-science.
Of course, rocket science is a very different sector than audio reproduction. Wondering why did you even mention this here?
I'm not talking about Northward or WSDG or whoever. I'm talking about the people who actually designed the speakers.Northward came to speak on this forum and only unpacked banalities.
Have you seen a secret agent? We Know ATC is a section on the CIA.I'm not talking about Northward or WSDG or whoever. I'm talking about the people who actually designed the speakers.
I have yet to see evidence that their stuff isn't contemporary.It’s a pity ATC can’t/won’t make a contemporary loudspeaker design
does it count when the objective measurements of them don't really catch up with how the competition evolves through past 20 years?I have yet to see evidence that their stuff isn't contemporary.
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Are you saying their customers would continue buying ATC if they sounded like the competition?does it count when the objective measurements of them don't really catch up with how the competition evolves through past 20 years?
well for purchase decisions, especially with few to no published data of the product, most buys on the big names, and when one believes it should sound phenominal due to the name, it usually will be a keeper. Frankly it's just more on brand bias than actual special, blind test choice for 99% consumers. Considering how the SCM19 V1 measured here have a mid shelve and while their other speakers don't, the V2 I found on goolge seems go opposite with a 1-3khz dip, which it don't seem like a house curve either.Are you saying their customers would continue buying ATC if they sounded like the competition?
Why do you think people gobble up all the product ATC can produce today?
Yes, you could say that.does it count when the objective measurements of them don't really catch up with how the competition evolves through past 20 years?
well, I listen to music at least 2 hrs straight any day before sleep, so I believe I am not that not interested to music. for ATC I did once listen in a Hifi friend's home, he got a pair of Vivid Giya G1 and then get a loan pair ATC SCM50 and magnipan 3.7i. the magnipan sounded weird and then the Giya being the best, ATC never got me impressed, the tonal balance shift quite noticeably when walking around, plus the bass is really not impressive for it's size, that part did make the mids in vocal music more stand out but still, unimpressive.Yes, you could say that.
But I think you are using the measurements the wrong way. It seems like you are looking at the measurements and then ruling out some speakers and other products, just based on the visualization of the measurement protocols without doing the follow-up listening test to determine if the measured imperfections really can be heard in real life.
I don't think ATC will ever be a company who are chasing the numbers for the sake of it, they seem to be more concerned about a good transient response, low distortion, and a generally higher dynamic capability than most other speakers. You know, things that have a real impact on the musical reproduction performance for people actually interested in listening to music.
P.S. There's nothing wrong with being interested in HiFi without an actual interest in music, there are many people who are highly interested in cars without being particularly interested in actually driving them.
I don't have much to say about the SCM19. Never heard neither the new version or the old one you’re referring to. I have never heard the Genelec 8030C, therefore I have no comments about the speaker’s dynamic capabilities or the transient response.well, I listen to music at least 2 hrs straight any day before sleep, so I believe I am not that not interested to music. for ATC I did once listen in a Hifi friend's home, he got a pair of Vivid Giya G1 and then get a loan pair ATC SCM50 and magnipan 3.7i. the magnipan sounded weird and then the Giya being the best, ATC never got me impressed, the tonal balance shift quite noticeably when walking around, plus the bass is really not impressive for it's size, that part did make the mids in vocal music more stand out but still, unimpressive.
As for dynamics, I know it isn’t the legendary ATC mid, but it’s still is the ATC in house woofer from SCM19.
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Didn’t really look like it will got better transient compared to entry level, analogue 8030C
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It’s still a pretty decent speaker, but don’t really convinced ATC is doing better in those departments while sacrificing directivity (off axis uniformity) or on axis flatness compared to similar driver size competitors
well, I listen to music at least 2 hrs straight any day before sleep, so I believe I am not that not interested to music. for ATC I did once listen in a Hifi friend's home, he got a pair of Vivid Giya G1 and then get a loan pair ATC SCM50 and magnipan 3.7i. the magnipan sounded weird and then the Giya being the best, ATC never got me impressed, the tonal balance shift quite noticeably when walking around, plus the bass is really not impressive for it's size, that part did make the mids in vocal music more stand out but still, unimpressive.
As for dynamics, I know it isn’t the legendary ATC mid, but it’s still is the ATC in house woofer from SCM19.
View attachment 227603
Didn’t really look like it will got better transient compared to entry level, analogue 8030C
View attachment 227604
It’s still a pretty decent speaker, but don’t really convinced ATC is doing better in those departments while sacrificing directivity (off axis uniformity) or on axis flatness compared to similar driver size competitors
But the 5db noise (a weighted ) at 1m is not.Hm... Btw the ELAC drb62 trounces it at half the price.SCM19 is a 6.5", 8030C has over an inch less in diameter for the midwoofer. So this is really quite humiliating.
Cue the handwavy appeals to b-but acoustic suspension, b-but transient response without any psychoacoustic evidence.
A sealed box will always have more distortion in the low end because it's literally only using cone excursion. The KH310 falls victim to this too, it approaches 100% THD in LF region. Barefoot too.SCM19 is a 6.5", 8030C has over an inch less in diameter for the midwoofer. So this is really quite humiliating.
Cue the handwavy appeals to b-but acoustic suspension, b-but transient response without any psychoacoustic evidence.
well, that's because, it didn't show up with different sources measuring the waterfall/step response in comparable scale to give an apple to apple comparison.I don't have much to say about the SCM19. Never heard neither the new version or the old one you’re referring to. I have never heard the Genelec 8030C, therefore I have no comments about the speaker’s dynamic capabilities or the transient response.
I don't speculate that much about anything I have no practical experience with.
When it comes to my SCM40, they have a better dynamic performance than any other similar-sized speaker I’ve had a chance to listen to.
You seem to avoid talking about the dynamic aspect. I think that's the most overlooked thing when it comes to loudspeakers, something that is a very important aspect for music in general, and that most speakers can’t reproduce.
TBH, that comparison I focus more on the mid to high end distortion, from above like 100hz-200hz, in the upper bass, above the port tuning, the Genelec is still cleaner than the SCM19, and then passing to above 500hz, the ATC is just comparable to the 8030C, which is the entry level design, with all the calibration, tuning for even directivity and at a fraction of the price, which is my point: the ATC is a good/ok speaker, just not up to the top competition level, those waveguide etc. don't show worse distortion at the data from amirm, so that magical bad directivity, b.. but it have much better dynamcis and distortion don't seem to hold up to me, which coincide with my experience of the SCM50A sealed box will always have more distortion in the low end because it's literally only using cone excursion. The KH310 falls victim to this too, it approaches 100% THD in LF region. Barefoot too.
The scm19 is generally better than most small sealed boxes re: LF distortion, though.
Also of course a ported speaker is going to have better LFX and lower distortion. That's literally the point of a port.
Oh, you're talking the hump around 800hz? Yeah that shouldn't be there. Still pretty marginal in terms of importance, it's all 2nd harmonic so pretty much totally masked at that level.well, that's because, it didn't show up with different sources measuring the waterfall/step response in comparable scale to give an apple to apple comparison.
So now the ATC driver have no magic in distortion, and when a adriver don't behave well it distortion I can't trust it will behave controlled and quick for the same SPL as other contemporary designs.
TBH, that comparison I focus more on the mid to high end distortion, from above like 100hz-200hz, in the upper bass, above the port tuning, the Genelec is still cleaner than the SCM19, and then passing to above 500hz, the ATC is just comparable to the 8030C, which is the entry level design, with all the calibration, tuning for even directivity and at a fraction of the price, which is my point: the ATC is a good/ok speaker, just not up to the top competition level, those waveguide etc. don't show worse distortion at the data from amirm, so that magical bad directivity, b.. but it have much better dynamcis and distortion don't seem to hold up to me, which coincide with my experience of the SCM50
yea, just as I keep saying, ATC are fine, and excellent if this performance was achieved like 20 years ago, but then somehow it went stagnant, so itt's kinda overpriced in current stateOh, you're talking the hump around 800hz? Yeah that shouldn't be there. Still pretty marginal in terms of importance, it's all 2nd harmonic so pretty much totally masked at that level.
w/r/t directivity - yeah, chances are it's less than SOTA.