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ATC speakers / Monitors

Chrise36

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I had an ATC C6 15” down firing sub, but it never integrated well for me.
The KH420’s are smoother to me and have better bass than the sub combo.
My recommendation, if you’re interested, is to give the Neumann’s an audition
Of course i will when i have the chance
 

TimVG

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Are we comparing with or without EQ? He also liked the ATC after EQ.

There is a big difference between EQ'ing the modal region (which is necessary in all but custom built rooms) and EQ'ing based on the anechoic data.
The ATC required a lot of it to sound decent, and as a result its power handling was deemed insufficient.
 

Chrise36

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There is a big difference between EQ'ing the modal region (which is necessary in all but custom built rooms) and EQ'ing based on the anechoic data.
The ATC required a lot of it to sound decent, and as a result its power handling was deemed insufficient.
There is a big difference between EQ'ing the modal region (which is necessary in all but custom built rooms) and EQ'ing based on the anechoic data.
The ATC required a lot of it to sound decent, and as a result its power handling was deemed insufficient.
If you bring the midrange down instead of pushing the tweeter it would not affect the power handling
 

thewas

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There is a big difference between EQ'ing the modal region (which is necessary in all but custom built rooms) and EQ'ing based on the anechoic data.
The ATC required a lot of it to sound decent, and as a result its power handling was deemed insufficient.
Plus of course as known that EQing doesn't correct directivity problems.
 

andreasmaaan

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I don't think "lack of bass" would be a fair characterisation of STCM50 and the larger models. Sure, there are other speakers of similar size that extend lower, but it's not like any of the larger ATCs roll off at 60Hz, either.

The real issue is that the response is ragged relative to better-performing speakers in their respective price ranges - especially off-axis, but also on-axis.

Having said that, there's nothing terribly wrong with them, and they are indeed low-distortion speakers (the more expensive models, that is). But they're old-fashioned designs, which would stack up well against many cone/dome speakers of 20+ years ago, but are lacking in a number of performance areas by today's standards.

Like any somewhat non-neutral speaker, they may flatter some recordings and/or better match some listener's individual preferences than a more neutral speaker would.

What they are not is:
  • accurate
  • good value-for-money
  • objectively better-performing than other similarly-priced or cheaper alternatives
 

TimVG

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If you bring the midrange down instead of pushing the tweeter it would not affect the power handling

Not sure we read the same review. The problem was the bass driver bottoming out!
 

Chrise36

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Not sure we read the same review. The problem was the bass driver bottoming out!
Every speaker bottoms out in max spl. I have the same driver in the SCM20 it bottoms out in very high spl the problem is the lack of bass.
 

TimVG

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Every speaker bottoms out in max spl. I have the same driver in the SCM20 it bottoms out in very high spl the problem is the lack of bass.

We're going in circles. The lack of bass was remedied by EQ, which in turn meant low overall max SPL. So owners are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 

DSJR

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The 50 bass unit will bottom out in high level monitoring (their electronics designer once referred to a song 'Pearl's a singer' of the time where the 'P' could cause issue played flat out into 50A's.

I don't believe it's possible to hear the Neumanns or larger Genelecs and so on in a dem situation and domestic visits to studios aren't really on the agenda! ATC's and PMC's are often available for domestic people to hear and if you're lucky, Kii's and D&D as well! trounble is, all these active models are a one-shot purchase and a dealer probably won't see the client again for a long time (forget passive ATC three ways, they don't measure right for genuine reasons concerning the mid dome and are probably only sold as a revenue stream to dealers who don't know or care, as the latter can sell ever more expensive amps to drive them - I have a lot to say about this but best not). What's the motivation to sell a superior seventeen grand (£) active speaker when you can sell a fifteen grand passive models and a twenty grand Naim amp system with further room for upgrades.

Believe me, before annihilating ATC as a brand, you want to look at the domestic market around them (I acknowledge the pro market has evolved and changed in the last twenty to thirty years). Speakers like the top high tech (but still passive) Dynaudio Confidence, PMC 'Fact' models and Kudos Titans are three options available locally to me and all of them are severely wanting in my opinion, no matter how they're driven (Titan 808's driven my a hundred hrand of active Naim is 'nice' but hardly earth shaking as I'd expect for that money).

I miss my 100A's so much. Having heard current 100ASL's sound so good at lower levels, I shed tears all over again when I heard them. I could happily live with another pair, even though 'better' may well be available, as I like the sound character in small to mid size UK rooms. The bass is dry with no boom and that suits fine and the larger models never shriek to my ears as many 'HiFi' high end speakers do.


P.S. The original 20ASL Pro's I had also had the upper mid lift I don't remember my passive pre 'SL' sdamples having. The pro's had a bass lift control but the bass wasn't as smooth and 'tuneful' as larger speakers generally give, being of a 'thumpy' nature (I unkindly called it 'stunt bass' at the time). I have to say I didn't find this mid-forward aspect in the passive cheaper SCM 11's which have a slightly more conventional bass driver I believe - floor stanbding 19A's are also low bass shy I remember. Active 40's are nice for smaller rooms and would be perfect for me if only herself could stand the looks.

P.P.S. This may have been discussed before so apologies, but if I could afford a larger Genelec or Neumann, I feel it would be difficult if not impossible to get a meaningful dem anywhere in the UK especially East Anglia, unless a pro dealer in Cambridge stocked and demonstrated them...
 
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Chrise36

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We're going in circles. The lack of bass was remedied by EQ, which in turn meant low overall max SPL. So owners are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
No it will not play the same bass as normal speakers even with eq it might be measuring good but it will not sound good in the bass region. I was talking about the midrange where Amir found some problems anyway.The question is if we compare two good measuring speakers for example your KEF R3 against the KH 0310 everyone in his listening room will have another opinion we can't make safe conclusions from measurements alone.
 

TimVG

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No it will not play the same bass as normal speakers even with eq it might be measuring good but it will not sound good in the bass region. I was talking about the midrange where Amir found some problems anyway.The question is if we compare two good measuring speakers for example your KEF R3 against the KH 0310 everyone in his listening room will have another opinion we can't make safe conclusions from measurements alone.

I agree. The spinorama informs you of linearity (regression), directivity and the presence of resonances. To me, it helps to seperate 'potentially good/great' from 'not worth bothering'.
 

Vintage57

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“before annihilating ATC as a brand,”

Au contraire, I think that ATC still makes a good product and I have 5 of them in my HT system. I just found the Neumann’s to be better. Probably because it’s much never technology. I would take the ATC over the PMC or most passive consumer product. It’s just that Genelec and Neumann exist and the D&D, which I’ve never heard yet. Reaching for the top shelf is all.
 
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Pearljam5000

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Most people outside this forum don't even like or want accurate /flat sound.
They look for more"musical " sound that is more pleasing (That's why vinyl and tubes are so popular )
I must say that from what I've heard (in videos) they sound pretty nice, obviously they won't be my speaker of choice if it was my money.
That's why ATC will continue to sell.
 

q3cpma

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Most people outside this forum don't even like or want accurate /flat sound.
They look for more"musical " sound that is more pleasing (That's why vinyl and tubes are so popular ).
That's mostly the excuse of neurotic fools obsessed about gear instead of music, Harman showed that most people prefer neutral when blinded.
 

stevenswall

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Whilst this is historically true my concern would be the DSP, and maybe the class-D amps, the longevity of which is not known since it is less than 20 years since they started being used.
DSP is a concern in case even if the hardware remains available new software and updates may make a product hard or impossible to service and no longer possible to receive updates. This has already happened to me with a super product, which still works well, that can no longer receive the latest updates or use the latest OS for hardware reasons.
I may well still choose the Neumann KH420 over the equivalent Genelec for simply this reason.

I've seen more broken passive speakers in my life than broken amp sections in active speakers. Curious how many people have seen them and how many. I'll even include soundbars and smart speakers. I've never seen a broken one, I don't think they design the amps, power supplies, or drivers to be able to destroy each other.

It also seems rare to repairs things, but if desired, Genelec supports things for a long, long time, most people (likely including the vast majority of those talking about decades of support) aren't going to run into that because they won't keep them, and updates don't matter if the speaker performs well and doesn't have an issue that needs to be corrected.

In my mind Updates for new features and security are relevant in the domain of smartphones and computers. Even TV's don't need updates because their primary function is to display things and one can plug in a newer device (just like with speakers.) Just like with Sonos speakers: It doesn't matter if they are eighteen octillion updates out of date, if they don't have issues impacting their functionality and still work to do what they were purchased for. You could make an argument for them being an attack vector on a network but that's really getting into the weeds.

If someone wants new updates for their speakers because the see "get updates" as a primary function, they will need to purchase the newest smart speakers from Apple, Amazon, or Google regularly and discard the old ones.

Curious what the issue is with the product that works well, but no longer receives updates... Just that it doesn't receive updates, or it sounds worse now or lacks a function it originally had? Maybe an external device would fix it if it's a streaming feature which I'll admit I'd value receiving as an update.
 
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Thomas savage

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ATC are one of those companies that I feel would struggle to make a impact if they were to be new to the market place .

Decent, solid , well established as they are , i wouldn't buy a pair thinking I'd bought something brilliant or innovative.

Audiophiles, audio enthusiasts? Shouldn't we want more than ATC .
 

Frank Dernie

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if they don't have issues impacting their functionality and still work to do what they were purchased for.
That is what I meant, mine still work fine.
Just like a phone or a digital camera, the one you have doesn't suddenly get worse when a new model or update comes out.
They don't have a 25 year life though.
 
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Pearljam5000

Pearljam5000

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ATC are one of those companies that I feel would struggle to make a impact if they were to be new to the market place .

Decent, solid , well established as they are , i wouldn't buy a pair thinking I'd bought something brilliant or innovative.

Audiophiles, audio enthusiasts? Shouldn't we want more than ATC .
Makes we wonder why they're so popular in the pro audio world
 
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