ATC speakers / Monitors

[goat76]

I'd consider this design as timeless as the ATCs even though it's futuristic
View attachment 226841

That one looks like a Genelec. Genelecs will always look like Genelecs.

KEF on the other hand will change their style to whatever they think looks cool for the moment.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

That one looks like a Genelec. Genelecs will always look like Genelecs.

KEF on the other hand will change their style to whatever they think looks cool for the moment.

Yeah, for example this do not looks cool in this moment, atc is stuck in the age from these Kefs to me

That being said Kef muon is timeless. Blades too.

 

[goat76]

Yeah, for example this do not looks cool in this moment, atc is stuck in the age from these Kefs to me

That being said Kef muon is timeless. Blades too.

Timeless speaker, timeless speaker, fugly sculpture.

 

[turnip_up]

At best this is an argument for the circle of confusion. If a recording sounds better with less detail, then it should be produced and mastered with a less detailed sound. I don't need my speakers to take the edge off of the recording TYVM, I expect the recording to achieve whatever the sonic goal is.

It would be great if the circle of confusion was the best argument, but the honest reality of day to day record making is that you would be in a very, very privileged position, and in a very, very tiny minority of audio engineers if the level of detail in a recording came down to an argument over ATC or D&D speakers.

Detail in audio recordings is created just like detail in any other engineering project. The quality of each and every component used, the quality of the various people involved in the collaborative process, budgets, time constraints, deadlines, politics. A speaker isn't going to improve a performer's note articulation. A speaker isn't going to improve the attack of an instrument. A speaker isn't going to make an average microphone sound better. A speaker isn't going to make a poor recording space sound better. A speaker isn't suddenly going to give you more time to deal with more and more sonic detail. Bigger budgets on the other hand? Sure. You can't fudge detail in post - If you want to move from that standard kitchen design to something highly detailed, somebody has to pay for it. The same applies for making records.

Don't get me wrong, it would REALLY be great if detail in audio recordings was the result of simply tossing a pair of D&D speakers into a production suite... but it isn't remotely that simple. Day to day work as an audio engineer can be gruelling and exhausting. Going in, day after day, endlessly batting for better audio quality across the entire process. It is a daily battle against what has essentially been decades of continuous downward pressure from the industry, an endless list of closing studio facilities, the rise of home recording, etc. It is a real shame that some people here would prefer to call audio engineers 'elitist' or 'egocentric', when really... they are your greatest ally in the plight to better sound quality. They just have a list of challenges they face on that plight that is unfathomably longer than most people here could imagine, with often many higher priorities than indulging endless ATC vs D&D debates.

I reckon you could kit out two separate production facilities - one with D&D and one with ATC, and you wouldn't really notice any conclusive difference to recording quality from the two. The circle of confusion is a great academic concept, but it doesn't remotely begin to take into consider what really goes into making recordings, at least not in the way many people choose to use it in an argument on ASR. Any passion for speakers or better sound quality is great, but when it comes to making recordings with specific 'sonic goals', that inherently puts the circle of confusion within the context of the recording industry, which is currently built on paying $0.01284 per stream on tidal or $0.003 per stream on Spotify.

 

[dshreter]

It would be great if the circle of confusion was the best argument, but the honest reality of day to day record making is that you would be in a very, very privileged position, and in a very, very tiny minority of audio engineers if the level of detail in a recording came down to an argument over ATC or D&D speakers.

Detail in audio recordings is created just like detail in any other engineering project. The quality of each and every component used, the quality of the various people involved in the collaborative process, budgets, time constraints, deadlines, politics. A speaker isn't going to improve a performer's note articulation. A speaker isn't going to improve the attack of an instrument. A speaker isn't going to make an average microphone sound better. A speaker isn't going to make a poor recording space sound better. A speaker isn't suddenly going to give you more time to deal with more and more sonic detail. Bigger budgets on the other hand? Sure. You can't fudge detail in post - If you want to move from that standard kitchen design to something highly detailed, somebody has to pay for it. The same applies for making records.

Don't get me wrong, it would REALLY be great if detail in audio recordings was the result of simply tossing a pair of D&D speakers into a production suite... but it isn't remotely that simple. Day to day work as an audio engineer can be gruelling and exhausting. Going in, day after day, endlessly batting for better audio quality across the entire process. It is a daily battle against what has essentially been decades of continuous downward pressure from the industry, an endless list of closing studio facilities, the rise of home recording, etc. It is a real shame that some people here would prefer to call audio engineers 'elitist' or 'egocentric', when really... they are your greatest ally in the plight to better sound quality. They just have a list of challenges they face on that plight that is unfathomably longer than most people here could imagine, with often many higher priorities than indulging endless ATC vs D&D debates.

I reckon you could kit out two separate production facilities - one with D&D and one with ATC, and you wouldn't really notice any conclusive difference to recording quality from the two. The circle of confusion is a great academic concept, but it doesn't remotely begin to take into consider what really goes into making recordings, at least not in the way many people choose to use it in an argument on ASR. Any passion for speakers or better sound quality is great, but when it comes to making recordings with specific 'sonic goals', that inherently puts the circle of confusion within the context of the recording industry, which is currently built on paying $0.01284 per stream on tidal or $0.003 per stream on Spotify.

I’m not certain, but I think my point may have been misunderstood. It was stated that some of the more modern speakers might not sound as good in the end because they sound more detailed than something like ATC. I don’t think speakers should be chosen to reduce the detail you hear, that should be handled by the recording.

I was not commenting on what speakers should be used for production.

 

[Tangband]

Linn speakers are truly poor, and the exact dsp technique is half arsed at best,
Keith

Thats not true at all - I bet you havent even heard the latest model Klimax 350 exakt organik ?
No sane person would pick a Genelec 8361 instead of this speaker with the recommended exakt source if he listened to it. I have done measurements on Akudorik exakt with katalyst, and it measures really good . The sound is fantastic, much better than my 8340/7350 and shows the advantage of a 4 way standmount speaker . The price is prohibited , so most of us must rely on Genelec and other slightly worse sounding speakers

Dont mix their passives ( not so good ) with their active options . The measurement that can be seen on internet is all passive versions ( Komri, Majik 140/109 ) .
Below a setup of Linn Klimax 350 exakt , a 5-way active dsp speaker with roomcorrection ( space ) and servo controlled subwoofers .

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Thats not true at all - I bet you havent even heard the latest model Klimax 350 exakt organic ?
No sane person would pick a Genelec 8361 instead of this speaker with the recommended exakt source if he listened to it. I have done measurements on Akudorik exakt and it measures really good . The sound is fantastic, much better than my 8340/7350 and shows the advantage of a 4 way standmount speaker . The price is prohibited , so most of us must rely on Genelec and other slightly worse sounding speakers

Dont mix their passives ( not so good ) with their active options . The measurement that can be seen on internet is all passive versions ( Komri, Majik 140/109 ) .

This?

Klimax Exakt 350 Speakers​

$76,310.00

I mean the Genelec 8361 + W371 Is waaaaaaay cheaper.. and it's 4-way cardiod..

 

[Tangband]

This?

Klimax Exakt 350 Speakers​

$76,310.00

I mean the Genelec 8361 + W371 Is waaaaaaay cheaper.. and it's 4-way cardiod..

Ofcourse the Genelec setup is much cheaper , more ugly and worse sounding - but maybe good enough for most of us ?

 

[Tangband]

Back to ATC - I think they are goodlooking speakers : SCM40

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Ofcourse the Genelec setup is much cheaper , more ugly and worse sounding - but maybe good enough for most of us ?
View attachment 226854
View attachment 226868

Seeying his page i didn't find any measurements.
Apparently their public is this: Party - conversation speakers for 1st world houses

From his website.

 

[Tangband]

Seeying his page i didn't find any measurements.
Apparently their public is this: Party - conversation speakers for 1st world houses

From this website.

No - the company targets rich audiophiles who wants the best, and also have a porsche in their garage .
The picture is pure marketing - Im sure no Linn retailer setup the speakers like that

 

[Pearljam5000]

Apparently Moby likes ATC

 

[FeddyLost]

for example this do not looks cool in this moment

IMO something is wrong with such spacing of midwoofers around small tweeter and this is the main reason of not being cool.

 

[Berlin]

Back to ATC - I think they are goodlooking speakers : SCM40
View attachment 226876

Yes, they are without the grilles. However, I sold my SCM40s though...

 

[DSJR]

Thats not true at all - I bet you havent even heard the latest model Klimax 350 exakt organik ?
No sane person would pick a Genelec 8361 instead of this speaker with the recommended exakt source if he listened to it. I have done measurements on Akudorik exakt with katalyst, and it measures really good . The sound is fantastic, much better than my 8340/7350 and shows the advantage of a 4 way standmount speaker . The price is prohibited , so most of us must rely on Genelec and other slightly worse sounding speakers

Dont mix their passives ( not so good ) with their active options . The measurement that can be seen on internet is all passive versions ( Komri, Majik 140/109 ) .
Below a setup of Linn Klimax 350 exakt , a 5-way active dsp speaker with roomcorrection ( space ) and servo controlled subwoofers .
View attachment 226851

And THAT, is why Linn will fail ultimately (along with Naim and Kudos pairings in the UK which look even uglier and don't sound that wonderful either after £120k or more spent!)

WHY?

Look at all those sodding BOXES in the rack between them. FFS people, it's madness, monstrous and totally wasteful of resources, let alone the freshly realised pension pots that are emptied in the process of buying that stuff!!!

Sure it sounds clean and 'deeeeetailed' with lots of not always natural tactile sparkle and so on, but the price is up there with all the other pretenders and I very very much doubt it pushes the state of the sonic art forwards, just the desire to have an never ending upgrade ladder to the 'next tier.' Plots I've seen of the tweeter array aren't particularly good either, but maybe this one is better.

Castle Sound Studios were associated closely with Linn and their record label (maybe they still are) and Linn supplied a monitor system to them, constantly updating and tinkering with it until parts were no longer available according to an interview done a few years back. Once said monitors were un-serviceable, what did Castle replace them with? ATC 25's!!!! They like them a lot apparently! Says it all for me

 

[DSJR]

Back to ATC - I think they are goodlooking speakers : SCM40
View attachment 226876

Wife hates them and much prefers the 50A's even on stands (forget the fugly tower versions, that's a sop to a kind of domestic masochism ) The 40A's are quite discrete in matte black though, but that grille thing.........

 

[DSJR]

Of course the Genelec setup is much cheaper , more ugly and worse sounding - but maybe good enough for most of us ?

How do you KNOW it's worse sounding? Have you done an A-B direct comparison to make that statement? Sorry, but it's getting silly now

Sorry, but Genelecs aren't available via domestic dealers and I doubt the Linn dealers know much at all outside a very few 'in crowd' domestic higher end brands.. If any came here spouting their programming they'd be mauled (I speak as one of old!)

 

[goat76]

Wife hates them and much prefers the 50A's even on stands (forget the fugly tower versions, that's a sop to a kind of domestic masochism ) The 40A's are quite discrete in matte black though, but that grille thing.........

I also prefer the look of my SCM40s without the grille. But it’s functional, according to people who has measured them with and without the grille, it doesn’t affect the sound at all.

 

[Tangband]

How do you KNOW it's worse sounding? Have you done an A-B direct comparison to make that statement? Sorry, but it's getting silly now

Sorry, but Genelecs aren't available via domestic dealers and I doubt the Linn dealers know much at all outside a very few 'in crowd' domestic higher end brands.. If any came here spouting their programming they'd be mauled (I speak as one of old!)

I havent done any A/B direct comparison but the reason a new exakt dsp model with organik dac sounds better is that the source sound is so much better than the ordinary studio stuff you feed a Genelec 8361 with .

As you are a former salesman for Linn, I read what you write with big interest , you sure know the importance of the source .
Linn has in my opinion made another giant step in soundquality with the new Klimax DS hub with only digital outputs, this transport converts every nonbeliever with just listening to a single chord in the beginning of a song.

I have a friend who have this gear and we have done extensive listening tests this summer with the former DS player, an Akurate DS hub comparing with the new Klimax DS hub . My friend bought the newer Klimax to his exakt system , and everyone who did the listening tests ( 4 ) could hear the clear difference.

Im sure that the newest Klimax DS with organik dac and a pair of passive Kef ls50 will sound better than an ATC SCM150 ASL model with a Yamaha wxc50 streamer as a source.
The fault is in the source.

 

[thewas]

I havent done any A/B direct comparison but the reason a new exakt dsp model with organik dac sounds better is that the source sound is so much better than the ordinary studio stuff you feed a Genelec 8361 with .

As you are a former salesman for Linn, I read what you write with big interest , you sure know the importance of the source .

Im sure that the newest Klimax DS with organik dac and a pair of passive Kef ls50 will sound better than an ATC 200 model with a Yamaha wxc50 streamer as a source.

Jeez, woudln't expect that we see the "source is most important" marketing nonsense of Linn in this section...