ATC speakers / Monitors

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

i think there is a lot of ' tune methods ' why is even a thing for a discuss in this thread? xD

 

[goat76]

i think there is a lot of ' tune methods ' why is even a thing for a discuss in this thread? xD

Because we are tired of you talking about magic all the time.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Because we are tired of you talking about magic all the time.

Are you talking to the mirror?

 

[Tangband]

It’s complete and utter BS, alongside PRAT and not wearing your wristwatch, Linn should have spent the time on research rather than marketing.
Keith

No its not - but this is off topic , maybe Íll start a thread about how to use the method for installation .

Back to ATC - my take on this , and a reason they sound good is that the floorstanders have rather wide baffles and their midrange units is sota, they play tunes in a good way - but maybe you have discussed this already

 

[Geert]

Companies/studios using hi end speakers are a few minority, not every country is 1st world, i have to remember that? not everyone is rich even in the 1st world?

This is how looks like a popular monitor using for mastering music. Much more popular than any ATC.

We were not discussing bedroom producers. No one in his right mind would use these speakers for professional mastering. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-e3-5-powered-monitor-review-100-pair.23388/

 

[Tangband]

i think there is a lot of ' tune methods ' why is even a thing for a discuss in this thread? xD

Maybe because ATC are among few speakers who can play bass-tunes in a good way ? *

* ie - They have good bass articulation, If installed correctly.

 

[Chrise36]

I can exchange a vacation house next year for a listening session in a nice treated room with good monitors...

 

[DSJR]

It’s complete and utter BS, alongside PRAT and not wearing your wristwatch, Linn should have spent the time on research rather than marketing.
Keith

You're quite wrong in this and I suspect you may have a real axe to grind against Linn, as so many 'long experienced' dealers do (they were incredibly successful at one time). Matters not to me as I'm out of this bullshit a lot older and hopefully a lot wiser too. The tune dem worked at the time and it worked for me until recently before my hearing deteriorated, although just maybe, the more organic and 'tuneful' basslines were added harmonic distortion I'll never know and in any case, hearing live music and owning big ATC's, all of which back then certainly NEVER EVER boomed, I stopped hunting for ever better gear. I await the chance to check if I can still hear differences in speakers at all 'cos it ALL sounds great to me currently

Before closing the door on a Linn discussion, Ivor wasn't *usually* the one who came out with the bull, it was then young, over-enthusiastic and basically tech-ignorant dealers (some were old hippies though) and media who fanned the flames I now feel looking back. In the UK, Naim had the same kind of adulation and hero-worship and Julian Vereker lapped it up as well, acknowledging that his amp company became successful originally on the back of Linn's commercial success...

Anyway, all that crap is ancient history now, even more ancient than ATC's speakers are supposed to be, so there!!!

 

[Purité Audio]

No axe to gtimd at all, Bs needs to be called out, and to state that big ATCs ‘never ever boomed’ is just silly, they are not exempt to the laws of physics admittedly their bass response is not that extensive.
Keith

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Maybe because ATC are among few speakers who can play bass-tunes in a good way ? *

* ie - They have good bass articulation, If installed correctly.

For their size they are not doing any interesting thing, we are not in the 2000's

We were not discussing bedroom producers. No one in his right mind would use these speakers for professional mastering. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-e3-5-powered-monitor-review-100-pair.23388/

Yeah but my point is most people are poor not rich, that law apply to producers too, even more in the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th world

 

[YSC]

No axe to gtimd at all, Bs needs to be called out, and to state that big ATCs ‘never ever boomed’ is just silly, they are not exempt to the laws of physics admittedly their bass response is not that extensive.
Keith

somehow that method of tune it... how to put it, is like a systematic way when proper measurement isn't a possibility, but then when you can have more scientific and accurate way to do so, why bother?

 

[Pearljam5000]

How hard is it for ATC to add waveguides to their speakers? It's really weird they don't do it

 

[Puddingbuks]

How hard is it for ATC to add waveguides to their speakers? It's really weird they don't do it

They are stuck in the past. Just like a one hit wonder that keeps singing the same song for decades.

Take a look at tannoy or harbeth. Same story.

 

[DSJR]

No axe to gtimd at all, Bs needs to be called out, and to state that big ATCs ‘never ever boomed’ is just silly, they are not exempt to the laws of physics admittedly their bass response is not that extensive.
Keith

Ever heard of what I call 'group delay ' in the bass? Do please correct me here, but large domestic UK boxes usually sounded off like tuneless fog-horns in the bass (it took Alan Shaw ages to realise this starting with the 40.2 - remember the back and forth over the 40.1 in Stereophile and the 40.1 wasn't that bad lower down I remember?). Big domestic Tannoys just seemed to thud away to me anyway and I envied the old big US speakers with bass clarity (and tunefulness on synth or electric bass) to die for. The 100A worked almost into corners, the bass 'level' coming up, but no waffle, wallow or BOOM which all the large 'competition' did (Spendor S100's and SP100's) boomed in free space FFS, at least to me. Sure, I'm not talking 2022 here and I do realise the KH420 is a lot cheaper is you can take the looks

I wanted my 100A's to mimic the sound lower down that I heard at the RAH at a King Crimson concert in 1994 (too effin' bloody long ago). The track is B'Boom* from Thrak, later done incredibly with THREE drummers but we had two then... I only had a cheap JVC five band equaliser (still got one similar in the loft) and a little cut at 125Hz and similar boost at the lower frequency (40Hz?) really transformed the sound at home (speakers were in corners but it wasn't a big room - cough) and the power handling and relative lack of distortion meant I could whack the volume up to well over neighbour-annoying levels and get a great facsimile of the event. My audiophile pals laughed at me, so the equaliser was put away and subsequently sold and that was that


*Well worth watching the current band line-up tackling this drum piece - absolutely amazing imo!

 

[goat76]

somehow that method of tune it... how to put it, is like a systematic way when proper measurement isn't a possibility, but then when you can have more scientific and accurate way to do so, why bother?

It's simple. You can't measure stereo because it's an illusion effect, therefore you can't use a microphone to set up speakers in a stereo configuration. You must use your ears.

 

[DSJR]

They are stuck in the past. Just like a one hit wonder that keeps singing the same song for decades.

Take a look at tannoy or harbeth. Same story.

Do some research, get some experience and maybe study marketing. If it ain't wrong, don't try to fix it - and bloody waveguides are NOT a simple universal cure-all - have you seen the 15 - 18kHz peaks in so many of these - admitedly not as severe as PMC and B&W engineer in but still?

 

[Tangband]

Do some research, get some experience and maybe study marketing. If it ain't wrong, don't try to fix it - and bloody waveguides are NOT a simple universal cure-all - have you seen the 15 - 18kHz peaks in so many of these - admitedly not as severe as PMC and B&W engineer in but still?

Correct.
Waveguides are usually much more needed in two way speakers , like a 8 or 6 inch bass with a 1 inch tweeter.
In a big ATC monitor, where there is a rather small 3 or 4 inch midrange dome, theres less need for a waveguide .
A waveguide is , as you write, no universal cure to everything . Depending on how deep the waveguide is, theres always gonna be some coloration of early reflections from the horn ( sorry - waveguide ) , this alone can make the sound less clear.
I have built DIY speakers with big waveguides and almost perfect directivity, but the sound were not without compromises.

 

[Purité Audio]

Ever heard of what I call 'group delay ' in the bass? Do please correct me here, but large domestic UK boxes usually sounded off like tuneless fog-horns in the bass (it took Alan Shaw ages to realise this starting with the 40.2 - remember the back and forth over the 40.1 in Stereophile and the 40.1 wasn't that bad lower down I remember?). Big domestic Tannoys just seemed to thud away to me anyway and I envied the old big US speakers with bass clarity (and tunefulness on synth or electric bass) to die for. The 100A worked almost into corners, the bass 'level' coming up, but no waffle, wallow or BOOM which all the large 'competition' did (Spendor S100's and SP100's) boomed in free space FFS, at least to me. Sure, I'm not talking 2022 here and I do realise the KH420 is a lot cheaper is you can take the looks

I wanted my 100A's to mimic the sound lower down that I heard at the RAH at a King Crimson concert in 1994 (too effin' bloody long ago). The track is B'Boom* from Thrak, later done incredibly with THREE drummers but we had two then... I only had a cheap JVC five band equaliser (still got one similar in the loft) and a little cut at 125Hz and similar boost at the lower frequency (40Hz?) really transformed the sound at home (speakers were in corners but it wasn't a big room - cough) and the power handling and relative lack of distortion meant I could whack the volume up to well over neighbour-annoying levels and get a great facsimile of the event. My audiophile pals laughed at me, so the equaliser was put away and subsequently sold and that was that


*Well worth watching the current band line-up tackling this drum piece - absolutely amazing imo!

Contemporary designs, add a delay to the mid and treble for perfect drop and step and they are phase coherent and they are full range and cardioid, and have constant directivity and are infinitely adjustable and have built in tone and PEQ.
Tech has come a long way since 1977, just not in Stroud.
Keith

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Correct.
Waveguides are usually much more needed in two way speakers , like a 8 or 6 inch bass with a 1 inch tweeter.
In a big ATC monitor, where there is a rather small 3 or 4 inch midrange dome, theres less need for a waveguide .
A waveguide is , as you write, no universal cure to everything . Depending on how deep the waveguide is, theres always gonna be some coloration of early reflections from the horn ( sorry - waveguide ) , this alone can make the sound less clear.
I have built DIY speakers with big waveguides and almost perfect directivity, but the sound were not without compromises.

With atc you get tons of cabinet difraction, waveguides helps
Is better a waveguide than the atc no-solution, if they dont want waveguides thats fine.. they should learn how to the ls60 deal with that problem, a very slim cabinet with the unicore woofers, thats innovation... Kef blades meta are in another league

There is plenty of speakers with no the 18khz thing..

 

[goat76]

How hard is it for ATC to add waveguides to their speakers? It's really weird they don't do it

Oh, they do have waveguides. Look at that little cute one, it’s almost like a “mini-me” to the mid-range dome.