ATC speakers / Monitors

[fpitas]

Seriously, what makes you think that?

I guess you think the same about all speakers that are popular in music studios like Genelecs, Focals, Neumann etc. You should probably avoid them all!

What type of speakers do you use at home?

No, people here have commented that Genelecs can be too forgiving in a studio. I imagine that is true for a lot of the more refined monitors. You need some idea what your mix will sound like in the real world, like in a car, or listening on old white van speakers, or rocking out to Bose cubes. Most end-users don't know or care about high fidelity.

I built my own active MTM speakers, from a witches brew of RSS390HF-4 woofers, W18E-001 mids, and TAD TD2002 drivers on 511 horns. They use an RCF DX-2006 DSP.

 

[goat76]

No, people here have commented that Genelecs can be too forgiving in a studio. I imagine that is true for a lot of the more refined monitors. You need some idea what your mix will sound like in the real world, like in a car, or listening on old white van speakers, or rocking out to Bose cubes. Most end-users don't know or care about high fidelity.

I built my own active MTM speakers, from a witches brew of RSS390HF-4 woofers, W180E001 mids, and TAD TD2002 drivers on 511 horns. They use an RCF DX-2006 DSP.

What I've heard, it's a bit of a misunderstanding why the NS-10 was so popular in studios. It wasn't because they sounded like something the general population had at home, they worked more like a magnifying glass for the midrange, and if the mixing engineer didn't hear anything wrong with those speakers, the mix would most likely not sound bad on anything else.

It was also a small portable speaker that freelancing engineers could easily take with them, just for a reference if they had to work with monitors they weren't used to.

I don't think many productions were made with the NS-10 as the main monitors, a full-range speaker is needed to hear the full spectrum in most cases.


This article goes in-depth about the NS-10. If you look at the measurements they had a really good transient response, which was probably one of the things that made them a good “studio tool” among others. Fast, brutally revealing tools that made certain aspects and faults in the mix stand out, and in most cases not used as the main monitors.

The Yamaha NS10 Story

Love or hate the Yamaha NS10, this unassuming little speaker has found a place in the studios of many of the world's top producers. We trace its history, and investigate why a monitor whose sound has been described as "horrible" became an industry standard.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[Chrise36]

People used (and still use) NS-10s for mixing. Once again, it's not because they're the best speaker. I can believe ATCs serve a similar purpose. Not at all sure that's a compliment.

You know most of the reviews back in the day use to quote that ATC are too revealing because of the studio character therefore not ideal for home use...

 

[fpitas]

What I've heard, it's a bit of a misunderstanding why the NS-10 was so popular in studios. It wasn't because they sounded like something the general population had at home, they worked more like a magnifying glass for the midrange, and if the mixing engineer didn't hear anything wrong with those speakers, the mix would most likely not sound bad on anything else.

It was also a small portable speaker that freelancing engineers could easily take with them, just for a reference if they had to work with monitors they weren't used to.

I don't think many productions were made with the NS-10 as the main monitors, a full-range speaker is needed to hear the full spectrum in most cases.


This article goes in-depth about the NS-10. If you look at the measurements they had a really good transient response, which was probably one of the things that made them a good “studio tool”. Fast, brutally revealing tools that made faults in the mix stand out.

The Yamaha NS10 Story

Love or hate the Yamaha NS10, this unassuming little speaker has found a place in the studios of many of the world's top producers. We trace its history, and investigate why a monitor whose sound has been described as "horrible" became an industry standard.

www.soundonsound.com

Yes, they have a peak around 1.5kHz, which gives them a forward sound.

 

[fpitas]

You know most of the reviews back in the day use to quote that ATC are too revealing because of the studio character therefore not ideal for home use...

That used to be a thing, that studio monitors are too revealing for home use. Dunno. Sometimes I suspect "revealing" in this context means they have some peaking in the presence region around 1.5kHz. That was the case with the NS-10s.

 

[dari]

What I've heard, it's a bit of a misunderstanding why the NS-10 was so popular in studios. It wasn't because they sounded like something the general population had at home, they worked more like a magnifying glass for the midrange, and if the mixing engineer didn't hear anything wrong with those speakers, the mix would most likely not sound bad on anything else.

It was also a small portable speaker that freelancing engineers could easily take with them, just for a reference if they had to work with monitors they weren't used to.

I don't think many productions were made with the NS-10 as the main monitors, a full-range speaker is needed to hear the full spectrum in most cases.


This article goes in-depth about the NS-10. If you look at the measurements they had a really good transient response, which was probably one of the things that made them a good “studio tool” among others. Fast, brutally revealing tools that made certain aspects and faults in the mix stand out, and in most cases not used as the main monitors.

The Yamaha NS10 Story

Love or hate the Yamaha NS10, this unassuming little speaker has found a place in the studios of many of the world's top producers. We trace its history, and investigate why a monitor whose sound has been described as "horrible" became an industry standard.

www.soundonsound.com

Interesting quote from linked article:

'frequency-response curve is typically meaningless in terms of providing any information that's useful to an end user — even if it was measured competently and had any technical value in the first place. But then, in some respects, it can suit a manufacturer of monitors if their customers don't know too much'

 

[fpitas]

Interesting quote from linked article:

'frequency-response curve is typically meaningless in terms of providing any information that's useful to an end user — even if it was measured competently and had any technical value in the first place. But then, in some respects, it can suit a manufacturer of monitors if their customers don't know too much'

You can't be too cynical about the end-user. We may obsess about this stuff, but most people really couldn't care less.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I wonder why ATCs are so polarizing here because on Gearslutz ATCs are the axiom, and Genelecs are the most polarizing lol

 

[dari]

You can't be too cynical about the end-user. We may obsess about this stuff, but most people really couldn't care less.

yeah, some couldn't breath if they wouldn't think daily about their speakers frequency response.

 

[fpitas]

yeah, some couldn't breath if they wouldn't think daily about their speakers frequency response.

Hey! I resemble that

 

[czt]

I wonder why ATCs are so polarizing here because on Gearslutz ATCs are the axiom, and Genelecs are the most polarizing lol

Different population. Here ATCs are not scientifically based.

 

[DSJR]

Different population. Here ATCs are not scientifically based.

THEY BLOODY WELL WERE!!! How dare you insult Billy Woodman so! (and also Tim Isaac who designed the original electronics)

Sure, the basic designs are 1980's now with substantial revisions after, but don't for a moment think they're not based on decent research and science at the time!!!!!

The NS10's used domestically on bookshelves as originally conceived, aren't actually that bad - brightly lit but not harsh I'd suggest. Free-standing or perched on a meter bridge is a different story, but my lord were they clear (artificially so) and clean with no stodge or smear...

See below -

https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf

Far down in the article, you'll see responses taken of various small monitors available back in 2000 or so, inclusing the ATc20ASL pro with bumped up upper mids just like the 19V1 which was annihilated here in review. Monitors back then almost all seemed to be that way, even the Harbeth-made HHB Circle monitors, although a JBL was dead flat it seems.

 

[fpitas]

THEY BLOODY WELL WERE!!! How dare you insult Billy Woodman so! (and also Tim Isaac who designed the original electronics)

Sure, the basic designs are 1980's now with substantial revisions after, but don't for a moment think they're not based on decent research and science at the time!!!!!

The NS10's used domestically on bookshelves as originally conceived, aren't actually that bad - brightly lit but not harsh I'd suggest. Free-standing or perched on a meter bridge is a different story, but my lord were they clear (artificially so) and clean with no stodge or smear...

See below -

https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf

Far down in the article, you'll see responses taken of various small monitors available back in 2000 or so, inclusing the ATc20ASL pro with bumped up upper mids just like the 19V1 which was annihilated here in review. Monitors back then almost all seemed to be that way, even the Harbeth-made HHB Circle monitors, although a JBL was dead flat it seems.

Interesting article. There were some horror show frequency responses.

 

[dfuller]

People used (and still use) NS-10s for mixing. Once again, it's not because they're the best speaker. I can believe ATCs serve a similar purpose. Not at all sure that's a compliment.

They don't, even the little ones are much more neutral. But yeah, NS10s are a "torture test" of sorts.

Interesting article. There were some horror show frequency responses.

Yeah, PMC and Quested in particular are quite bad.

The SCM20 has a decent showing, not great not terrible. Bit of a bass shelf down, but overall smooth (i.e. no resonances), which is part of why they sound "clean".

 

[Pearljam5000]

The KH420 and SCM50 feel like a pretty similar design
What justifies the price difference?

 

[czt]

THEY BLOODY WELL WERE!!! How dare you insult Billy Woodman so! (and also Tim Isaac who designed the original electronics)

Not intended. On the contrary (being an engineer) I very much respect well designed and trustworthy electronics. It was only a statement based on my knowledge about the two forums.

 

[DSJR]

Interesting article. There were some horror show frequency responses.

BUT - they worked for the engineers using them and maybe the NS10 was a kind of benchmark for this? Stick many of these models in a smaller domestic room close to a wall and just maybe the bumped up upper-mids flatten out a bit?

These days, i think I'd prefer a flat measuring uper mid t bass region with the ability to drop bass levels if needs be. I believe that's how modern smaller actives work. The original ATC 50 and 100A's had mid and hf level controls but the amp packs post early 1993 onwards didn't and boy, did I miss the option. It's because they didn't 'boom' that they got away with it (you could never have put Spendor SP100's where my 100A's were sited for example - I apologise for using a UK model but back then, large speakers away from Linn's atrocities weren't available and big half decent JBL's were all but inpossible to hear let alone buy).

We're so spoiled for speakers today, we really are and th einternet and online ordering means the more enlightened purchasers can avoid largely untrained and now ignorant dealers (yeah, I was one once) and order directly with an option of returning them if it's a real disaster (less risk in these days of DSP and so on. Gawd, some of you lot think ATC's are not so hot - have you actually listened to what a lot of domestic based audio salons are peddling these days, especially in the UK and the prices they charge (I'm thinking a Kudos Titan speaker actively driven by Naim, or one of Linn's 'aktiv' systems?

 

[DSJR]

Not intended. On the contrary (being an engineer) I very much respect well designed and trustworthy electronics. It was only a statement based on my knowledge about the two forums.

Sorry if I kicked off wrongly there..

I'd LOVE the bloody chance to go hear some of the new wave of professional or prosumer actives rather than PMC. B&W or Dynaudio's passive 'finest' but it's damned difficult here. The Kii Three sans BXT is the closest so far and I loved them I have to say...

 

[czt]

What justifies the price difference?

That is why ATC price range is ridiculous for me (EU), and does "not understand" their popularity/hype.

 

[Vintage57]

The KH420 and SCM50 feel like a pretty similar design
What justifies the price difference?
View attachment 219740View attachment 219741

I have a pair of KH420’s in my 2.1 system and 3 SCM50A in my 5.1 and the Neumann’s are a better sounding speaker.
I had SCM150A in my 2.1 system prior to the Neumann’s and it was a move up.
The Neumann’s provides a cleaner voice an the bass.
Forget about it, the ATC’s just don’t compare.