ATC speakers / Monitors

[Space is the place]

Yes i was there on the Saturday, probably one of the first rooms i heard in the morning, that's great glad they got them sorted!

 

[RexrothPigeon]

You mean ones like George Massenburg?

He is 79 years old and in the year of our lord 2026 should not be held up as an example of someone capable of selecting hi fidelity speakers

 

[574stereo]

Floyd Toole is 88.

I personally don't like the idea of writing people off based on their age...

 

[thewas]

Floyd Toole is 88.

I personally don't like the idea of writing people off based on their age...

Poor analogy, I remember Toole writing that he left the Harman listening panel when he became 60 due to his normal age related hearing degradation. He had noted that although his hearing thresholds at the time were significantly better than standard presbycusis (normal age-related hearing loss), his testing judgments were becoming measurably less consistent, making it increasingly difficult to reliably identify subtle differences in sound quality during critical evaluation.

 

[knobtwiddler]

He is 79 years old and in the year of our lord 2026 should not be held up as an example of someone capable of selecting hi fidelity speakers

Firstly, Massenburg specified ATC when the studio was set up, over 20 years ago, Having retired from Blackbird, the new owner continued with ATC - recently updating it, as per the link I posted.

Secondly, regardless of Massenburg's age, his knowledge is pretty much second-to-none. So regardless of how good his hearing is, his objective knowledge is the reason for ATCs.

Your posting is ageist and without objective foundation. Trolling of the highest order.

 

[goat76]

It's not like George Massenburg was the only person involved in making Studio C at Blackbird, and I’m sure there was more than him who had a say in the choice of ATC loudspeakers for the studio.


Here is a part of an interview with the Blackbird Studio owner John McBride:

“What made you go with the ATC speakers?
JM: When I built Blackbird originally, I knew four or five studio engineers. I called them up and asked them what main speakers I should use. Everybody had an opinion about everything, and the only speakers that no one ever said anything bad about were the ATCs. So I looked up the company online and I ordered my first pair. Since then, we’ve ordered quite a few more. We have ATC’s in Studio A, B, C, D, E, and F.

As with any speaker, once you learn it, that is the key. I’ve been listening to ATC speakers for 17 years so I feel very, very comfortable. When I hear an ATC 300, I know how that’s going to translate to my car, my house, and in the studio. They’re just really great, musical speakers.

I like to track and mix on 300s, because I get the whole spectrum of audio. I’m not too heavy or too light in any frequency range. It really gives you the opportunity to listen critically. I love the way these speakers respond, they make me really happy. So that was the speaker we had to go with, and I’m glad we did. ATC came through with flying colors and were able to deliver what we needed in a very timely fashion, which is no small feat.”

https://vintageking.com/blog/blackbird-dolby-atmos/?srsltid=AfmBOorQ8dUXn47NmEZfWY910T_L7GrW6jqTyZVMMzEDFUmAqIlQ0_a-

 

[NTK]

Currently there are 3 different choices of monitor sets for Studio C. The "Dolby Atmos" setup has ATC's. The "Overdub" and "Sony 360" setups have Genelecs.

Blackbird Studio C

blackbirdstudio.com

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Firstly, Massenburg specified ATC when the studio was set up, over 20 years ago,

Fair. Men in their late 50s are definitely known to have good hearing
/s

Your posting is ageist and without objective foundation. Trolling of the highest order.

While I love the compliment, no, I'm not trolling. Old people lose hearing, full stop. It starts young, even. But by Massenburg's age, hearing is extremely degraded.

This is biology, not ageism.

 

[goat76]

I found this tour video of Blackbird Studios with the owner, John McBride, showing all the studio rooms and all the gear they have available. It's an impressive studio complex, to say the least. I'm sure the high-quality, low-distortion sound of all those great ATC loudspeakers makes it an awesome experience for anyone who has the opportunity to visit that room listening to music, even the ones who do their very best, always trying to find some negative whenever they write something in this thread.

While the whole video is a good watch, I time-stamped the video to the part where they are showing and discussing the most special mixing room, Studio C, with all that diffusion on the walls where none of the wood sticks have the same length except 2 of them.

52:06 into the video tour:

 

[knobtwiddler]

Fair. Men in their late 50s are definitely known to have good hearing
/s



While I love the compliment, no, I'm not trolling. Old people lose hearing, full stop. It starts young, even. But by Massenburg's age, hearing is extremely degraded.

This is biology, not ageism.

^A gross generalisation. If you're going to post on one of the few (only?) audio-related groups that's focused on science, not witchcraft, do get your facts straight.

Around 40-50% of people over 75% have hearing loss (it rises to 50% in those over 85). That means around half of those in GM's age group still have decent hearing. Secondly, in terms of knowing how to record or mix a record, it's all about skill and experience. About 99% of music happens under 10K. Even if an engineer such as GM has shot hearing above 10K, his experience and knowledge will make for a better recording than someone younger who doesn't have the chops. ATCs are famous for their mid presentation, which is why they're popular in studios. Even if 10K+ declines due to age, experience and knowledge outweighs perception of 'air' in terms of recording and mixing.

Seniors and Hearing Loss - American Academy of Audiology

People with untreated hearing loss experience a decreased quality of life. Learn more about seniors and hearing loss here.

www.audiology.org

 

[thewas]

People should be careful when accusing others while using unsuitable facts themselves. The above link is about when people have such severe hearing loss that it impacts normal life, not to work as audio engineers.

Thousands of performed Audiograms show that already 50 year old humans on average have more than 10 dB hearing loss at 8 kHz (where typical audiograms end), so we aren't talking about the Diana Krall fizzle above but serious impacts in the range where music has still serious content.

Source: https://hearingreview.com/inside-hearing/research/what-is-normal-hearing-for-older-adults

 

[knobtwiddler]

on average

You back up my point. "On average" is a generalisation, not specific to the person in question. There are seniors out there who buck trends. If you don't want to experience hearing loss, choose your parents carefully. Noise-induced exposure is a large factor, but it affects people differently, depending on genetics. No one here has any idea of how good George Massenburg's hearing was when he specified ATCs - and for all we know, he could be an exception (or not). What we do know is that his recording career is as good as it gets and his recording credits and awards speak for themselves.

The earlier "ATC is sought after typically by the less knowledgable engineers" comment has been thoroughly debunked. Regardless of whether Massenburg's hearing was typical for his age when he installed the speakers around 20 years ago, we now know that Blackbird's decision to install them was a joint decision, taken by numerous pros working at the facility. In mastering facilities, ATC are commonly seen in the hands of pros with proven track records. Maybe there are speakers with better objective performance, but the "less knowledgeable" point is utter garbage.

 

[rwtooley]

choose your parents carefully

 

[Atc4ever]

Music is much more than a group of different sounds, and a good audio engineer is much more than a person whose ears hear very well.
Historically, hi-fi were created by audio engineers who were first and foremost music lovers who wanted to somehow technically record what they were listening to live so that they (and other people) could enjoy the music when they wanted to.
So, what does that have to do with how capable someone is of hearing a kilohertz or two?
Some people have excellent hearing, but still have little or no interest in music, especially hifi.
We, music consumers, we praise those people who have dedicated their whole lives to one goal - to bring music to our homes as faithfully as possible and thus enrich our lives. Such people were the founders of all the big hifi companies. Billy Woodman was one of them.
If they succeeded in that goal, who cares how many kilohertz they hear...
And now, here the question arises as to whether these people heard correctly and whether they were capable of achieving what they have already achieved a long time ago... what a nonsense!

 

[thewas]

You back up my point. "On average" is a generalisation, not specific to the person in question. There are seniors out there who buck trends. If you don't want to experience hearing loss, choose your parents carefully. Noise-induced exposure is a large factor, but it affects people differently, depending on genetics. No one here has any idea of how good George Massenburg's hearing was when he specified ATCs - and for all we know, he could be an exception (or not). What we do know is that his recording career is as good as it gets and his recording credits and awards speak for themselves.

The earlier "ATC is sought after typically by the less knowledgable engineers" comment has been thoroughly debunked. Regardless of whether Massenburg's hearing was typical for his age when he installed the speakers around 20 years ago, we now know that Blackbird's decision to install them was a joint decision, taken by numerous pros working at the facility. In mastering facilities, ATC are commonly seen in the hands of pros with proven track records. Maybe there are speakers with better objective performance, but the "less knowledgeable" point is utter garbage.

The core issue isn't whether an individual might be an exception to biological trends, it's about evaluating equipment performance based on sound engineering principles rather than relying on authority or age-correlated perception.

While genetics play a role, age-related presbycusis combined with lifetime exposure is a cumulative physiological reality. Pointing out high-frequency attenuation at 8 kHz+ in mature ears isn't a slight against any engineer's talent, it is simply acknowledging basic human physiology. Relying on "they might be the statistical exception" as a defense for gear choices shifts the argument from measurable acoustics to speculation.

Masterful recordings are the result of exceptional talent, critical listening habits, and deep familiarity with one's monitoring environment. An engineer can produce world-class work on monitors with known limitations simply because they know how to compensate for them. A prime historical example is Quincy Jones relying on and endorsing the Auratone 5C Sound Cube, a notoriously band-limited, flat-sounding speaker nicknamed the "Horratone." The fact that a legend produced masterpieces like Thriller using them proves Quincy's genius, but it certainly doesn't mean the Auratone is the pinnacle of objective speaker design. A stellar discography proves the engineer's skill, not an infallible endorsement of a speaker's acoustic perfection.

A consensus among seasoned pros at a facility like Blackbird certainly proves that ATCs are a respected tool in high-end workflows. But market adoption by industry veterans and objective acoustic performance (such as dispersion control, distortion profiles, or frequency response linearity) are two different discussions.

No one is claiming top engineers aren't knowledgeable or that ATCs haven't been used on iconic records. But gear evaluation should ultimately rest on objective measurement and acoustic physics, rather than assuming an individual's hearing baseline or relying on sound-engineer pedigree as a proxy for speaker evaluation.

 

[Mart68]

The fact that a legend produced masterpieces like Thriller using them proves Quincy's genius, but it certainly doesn't mean the Auratone is the pinnacle of objective speaker design

As if they were the only monitor used in making that recording.

He endorsed them because they drove a dump truck full of money up to his door. He's not made of stone.

He was a genius though I agree with that.

 

[thewas]

He endorsed them because they drove a dump truck full of money up to his door. He's not made of stone.

That is very possible and shows us how careful we should be when listening to the choices of such authorities and why objective measurements are the only ones we can trust.

 

[Frank Dernie]

While genetics play a role, age-related presbycusis combined with lifetime exposure is a cumulative physiological reality. Pointing out high-frequency attenuation at 8 kHz+ in mature ears isn't a slight against any engineer's talent, it is simply acknowledging basic human physiology. Relying on "they might be the statistical exception" as a defense for gear choices shifts the argument from measurable acoustics to speculation.

This maybe of importance for recording engineers, but only slightly IMO, since most music contains the majority of its information at much lower frequencies than most hifi enthusiasts appear to think/believe.
If you are losing hearing sensitivity over 10kHz you are missing only some of (but by no means all) of the overtones of instruments, not fundamentals, and yes, I don't hear an orchestral triangle the same as I used to, which I regret, mostly I am missing a tiny percentage of what is on my recordings, and I am missing the same at concerts.

OTOH when I went for a demo of ATC speakers almost 40 years ago, fully expecting to order some, I bought Apogee ribbons in preference on comparing them, and I am sure they are even worse by the currently favoured benchmarks.

 

[Mart68]

Some of the assumptions being made seem a bit odd. No professional recording is made using only one set of speakers, nor is it made by one person in isolation.

As if Quincy Jones was the only person to hear 'Thriller' at all stages of production and only on Auratones. It's absurd.

We get the same with the Led Zep remasters 'They're so bright because Jimmy Page's hearing is shot.' Yes because he did them all on his own isolated in an underground bunker and no-one else even had a quick listen until they were on the shelves in the shop. How can anyone believe that is how it works?

 

[thewas]

If you are losing hearing sensitivity over 10kHz you are missing only some of (but by no means all) of the overtones of instruments, not fundamentals, and yes, I don't hear an orchestral triangle the same as I used to, which I regret, mostly I am missing a tiny percentage of what is on my recordings, and I am missing the same at concerts.

As I had written in #6.631 I am not talking about the region above 10 kHz but already 10 dB at 8 kHz in the age of 50, not to talk at ages above. The good thing is that our brain compensates a part of such and since our acoustic memory is limited we don't really know what we are missing.