ATC speakers / Monitors

[Purité Audio]

Uh-huh.
Keith

 

[zonk]

But for those who have K&H O300s or O410s, you pretty much can't get parts for them - Neumann/Sennheiser don't have them. If you blow a woofer (which does seem to happen on the O300s...), you're cooked. Genelec and ATC keep stock around for older speakers, I can't say I've seen the same from Neumann/Sennheiser.

These are Klein&Hummel speakers, don't know how long these speakers were in production.

In 2005 the sales and development operations of Klein&Hummel were transferred to Sennheiser. In 2009 the Sennheiser Group announced the dissolution of Klein&Hummel.

 

[goat76]

Uh-huh.
Keith

Please stop treating ASR as if it was your personal little Facebook messenger conversation. Answer people with a proper reply instead of these short and meaningless responses. This forum deserves more quality.

 

[Sokel]

Please stop treating ASR as if it was your personal little Facebook messenger conversation. Answer people with a proper reply instead of these short and meaningless responses. This forum deserves more quality.

I would mind only if it was the original "Uh-Huh©" owner, @SIY , who actually measures stuff.
But Keith???

Nahhh

 

[Mort]

Please stop treating ASR as if it was your personal little Facebook messenger conversation. Answer people with a proper reply instead of these short and meaningless responses. This forum deserves more quality.

Just put them on ignore like I did

 

[goat76]

Just put them on ignore like I did

I only have two members on my ignore list, and for a few months, I also had a certain dealer on that list too. But I find the forum gets somewhat broken when I’m not able to see what it is other members respond to when they reply to these ignored members of mine. I shouldn't have to be the one who has to tear down the forum.

 

[dfuller]

These are Klein&Hummel speakers, don't know how long these speakers were in production.

The KH420 replaced the O410 in 2014, KH310 replaced the O300 in the previous year.

Sennheiser/Neumann used to sell replacement parts; no longer. It's a frustrating change.

 

[574stereo]

A typical Keith tactic (he does it on other forums too)…


Someone posts with a good experience comparing an ATC speaker to something he sells (like a Kii3)… but according to Keith without a measurement to back it up, their ears are being fooled.

Yet when it’s him posting, no measurements are needed and his own expert ears and opinions are enough to back up what he’s saying…


I still haven’t seen him post a single measurement by the way… just to point out.


Hmmmm….

 

[Mort]

I only have two members on my ignore list, and for a few months, I also had a certain dealer on that list too. But I find the forum gets somewhat broken when I’m not able to see what it is other members respond to when they reply to these ignored members of mine. I shouldn't have to be the one who has to tear down the forum.

I probably have 50 including some of the most prolific (and boring) writers.

Some threads are unreadable.

 

[Atc4ever]

We have members who own or use atc speakers, they mainly share the experiences they have gained in practice using atc.
The second group is those who do not own or use atc speakers, but are very critical on atc.
Discussions between the two group are tiresome, conflicting, and, as a rule, slip into a tone that nobody, I hope, wants.
I own an atc speaker but I am not encouraging anyone to buy an atc. Because I see atc more as a pro speakers (classic series) then hifi. I feel the character of their sound are more align with studio requirements then to typical hifi set up.

However, I don't understand the motives of some members who neither own nor use atc speakers but still persistently participate in these discussions, endlessly complaining on anything atc.
They don't have atc speakers, don't have measurements of them, don't have desire to buy atc.
So I wonder, what is the basis of their discussions?

 

[574stereo]

Agreed, it has periods where the discussion gets more technical and then just reverts back to the same core group of trolls bleating the same stuff over and over again. Very tiresome.

Ultimately it's their way of causing trouble because they don't like the brand. Keith has commercial reasons to be like this too remember...

 

[RexrothPigeon]

At least the people you disagree with are talking about the speakers and brand. You've given up on discussing the speakers and are now whining about people.

Agreed, it has periods where the discussion gets more technical and then just reverts back to the same core group of trolls bleating the same stuff over and over again. Very tiresome.

Ultimately it's their way of causing trouble because they don't like the brand. Keith has commercial reasons to be like this too remember...

We have members who own or use atc speakers, they mainly share the experiences they have gained in practice using atc.
The second group is those who do not own or use atc speakers, but are very critical on atc.
Discussions between the two group are tiresome, conflicting, and, as a rule, slip into a tone that nobody, I hope, wants.
I own an atc speaker but I am not encouraging anyone to buy an atc. Because I see atc more as a pro speakers (classic series) then hifi. I feel the character of their sound are more align with studio requirements then to typical hifi set up.

However, I don't understand the motives of some members who neither own nor use atc speakers but still persistently participate in these discussions, endlessly complaining on anything atc.
They don't have atc speakers, don't have measurements of them, don't have desire to buy atc.
So I wonder, what is the basis of their discussions?

 

[goat76]

I have one criticism of ATC loudspeakers, just like with most other loudspeaker manufacturers, for that matter, and that is about where the height of the acoustic axis ends up on different speaker models, depending on how they are designed. When I optimize my loudspeakers in my listening room, I want to make sure the acoustic axis of my ATC loudspeakers ends up at ear level at my optimal, most critical listening position, as recommended in the manual.

For all the 2-way ATC speakers, the acoustic axis is at the midpoint between the bass/mid driver and the tweeter, while the acoustic axis for all the 3-way ATC speakers is at the height of, or a bit lower than the mid-dome driver. The recommendation, which is stated in the manual, the acoustic axis should be at the ear level or up to 5 degrees above the ear level.

This is, of course, not a problem with the smaller 2-way and 3-way models that can be easily positioned at the most optimal height just by using a speaker stand with the correct height for the particular speaker model. But when it comes to the floor-standing models, there is a lack of continuity from speaker to speaker where the height of the acoustic axis ends up, and that is even the case with their classic series of speakers that comes with a stand.

The height of my ears at the listening position is at 91 centimeters above the floor, but I think my sofa is quite low, so the average height is likely a bit higher than that, and probably around 95 centimeters. When I use spikes and Linn Skeet flor protectors, the midpoint of the mid-dome driver of my SCM40s is at 84 centimeters above the floor. To solve that when optimizing the setup, I have tilted the speakers by maximizing the length of the spikes on the front of the speakers, and minimized the length of the spikes at the back of the speakers. This is enough to point the mid-dome driver at the height of my ears at the listening position, which I have confirmed with a laser measuring device.

What I can see in pictures of the SCM50, the mid-dome driver is placed even lower than it is on the SCM40, approximately about 3-4 centimeters lower. I don’t understand why ATC didn’t just make the stand 10 centimeters taller, or maybe even letting the customers making a custom order for the height of the stand, as these speakers are usually made on order anyway.

As I said, this is not isolated to ATC. Here’s an example of the Revel Performa Be series of speakers, which have their acoustic axis at the height of the tweeter drivers. The acoustic axis is all over the place with this speaker line.
And the AsciLab 8C8/BX8C combo, which at least will have the acoustic axis 108 centimeters above the floor.

Yes, I know that all these loudspeakers have a acoustic “window” that allows for some margins, but if you really want to truly optimize for the absolute best possible sound, that will be listening at the same height as the acoustic axis of the speakers.
The closer you are to the speakers, the larger difference it makes to optimize this. For me who optimizes my speaker setup for a high ratio of direct sound, the listening distance is only about 190 centimeters between the speakers and my ears.

 

[Avp1]

I have one criticism of ATC loudspeakers, just like with most other loudspeaker manufacturers, for that matter, and that is about where the height of the acoustic axis ends up on different speaker models, depending on how they are designed. When I optimize my loudspeakers in my listening room, I want to make sure the acoustic axis of my ATC loudspeakers ends up at ear level at my optimal, most critical listening position, as recommended in the manual.

For all the 2-way ATC speakers, the acoustic axis is at the midpoint between the bass/mid driver and the tweeter, while the acoustic axis for all the 3-way ATC speakers is at the height of, or a bit lower than the mid-dome driver. The recommendation, which is stated in the manual, the acoustic axis should be at the ear level or up to 5 degrees above the ear level.

View attachment 542842

This is, of course, not a problem with the smaller 2-way and 3-way models that can be easily positioned at the most optimal height just by using a speaker stand with the correct height for the particular speaker model. But when it comes to the floor-standing models, there is a lack of continuity from speaker to speaker where the height of the acoustic axis ends up, and that is even the case with their classic series of speakers that comes with a stand.

The height of my ears at the listening position is at 91 centimeters above the floor, but I think my sofa is quite low, so the average height is likely a bit higher than that, and probably around 95 centimeters. When I use spikes and Linn Skeet flor protectors, the midpoint of the mid-dome driver of my SCM40s is at 84 centimeters above the floor. To solve that when optimizing the setup, I have tilted the speakers by maximizing the length of the spikes on the front of the speakers, and minimized the length of the spikes at the back of the speakers. This is enough to point the mid-dome driver at the height of my ears at the listening position, which I have confirmed with a laser measuring device.

What I can see in pictures of the SCM50, the mid-dome driver is placed even lower than it is on the SCM40, approximately about 3-4 centimeters lower. I don’t understand why ATC didn’t just make the stand 10 centimeters taller, or maybe even letting the customers making a custom order for the height of the stand, as these speakers are usually made on order anyway.

View attachment 542869






As I said, this is not isolated to ATC. Here’s an example of the Revel Performa Be series of speakers, which have their acoustic axis at the height of the tweeter drivers. The acoustic axis is all over the place with this speaker line.
And the AsciLab 8C8/BX8C combo, which at least will have the acoustic axis 108 centimeters above the floor.

View attachment 542870



Yes, I know that all these loudspeakers have a acoustic “window” that allows for some margins, but if you really want to truly optimize for the absolute best possible sound, that will be listening at the same height as the acoustic axis of the speakers.
The closer you are to the speakers, the larger difference it makes to optimize this. For me who optimizes my speaker setup for a high ratio of direct sound, the listening distance is only about 190 centimeters between the speakers and my ears.

Custom stands, including adjustable ones are available from Sound Anchor, which historically was making stands for many brands going back over 30 years. When you see studio setups with ATC speakers, they are almost always sit on Sound Anchor stands.

 

[Atc4ever]

Every time I got new speakers, I had to make new stands for them. It just can't be avoided.
In the case of the scm50, the factory stands (given with speakers) are of very simple and inexpensive construction.
If their height doesn't suit you (and it probably won't), just go to a locksmith, take the factory atc stand and tell him to make you the exact same one, only higher or lower.

 

[Nopiano]

The height of my ears at the listening position is at 91 centimeters above the floor, but I think my sofa is quite low, so the average height is likely a bit higher than that, and probably around 95 centimeters. When I use spikes and Linn Skeet flor protectors, the midpoint of the mid-dome driver of my SCM40s is at 84 centimeters above the floor. To solve that when optimizing the setup, I have tilted the speakers by maximizing the length of the spikes on the front of the speakers, and minimized the length of the spikes at the back of the speakers. This is enough to point the mid-dome driver at the height of my ears at the listening position, which I have confirmed with a laser measuring device.

I agree it’s a fairly common design weakness - or characteristic if being charitable - of many speaker ranges. I’ve had my SCM40 on plinths - actually Sonus faber ‘Stones’ made for long departed Concerto Grand Piano speakers - since I first got them. They add about 5cm which suit my ears, and I can use the speakers without spikes which I’m not mad on at home. It’s much easier to tweak toe-in etc without, and I intersperse the base of the ATC and the plinth with a sheet of rubber mesh - that stuff sold to line drawers with to deaden noise and avoid slippage.

 

[goat76]

I agree it’s a fairly common design weakness - or characteristic if being charitable - of many speaker ranges. I’ve had my SCM40 on plinths - actually Sonus faber ‘Stones’ made for long departed Concerto Grand Piano speakers - since I first got them. They add about 5cm which suit my ears, and I can use the speakers without spikes which I’m not mad on at home. It’s much easier to tweak toe-in etc without, and I intersperse the base of the ATC and the plinth with a sheet of rubber mesh - that stuff sold to line drawers with to deaden noise and avoid slippage.

View attachment 548605

I would like to say it’s more than a design weakness, I find it really strange that the acoustic axis height isn’t a dead set thing when designing the physical measurements of a loudspeaker from the start. When it comes to having the acoustic axis too low, which is the case with some of ATC’s loudspeakers, at least it makes it quite easy to raise the loudspeaker like you have done using something placed under the loudspeakers, but with some other loudspeaker from other manufacturers, they have the acoustic axis way higher than any normal listening height would be sitting in a sofa or a armchair. Of course, you can tilt those speakers and try to aim them to the height of the listener’s ears, but I still find it really strange that something like that seems to have been overlooked when designing the physical measurements of a loudspeaker.

 

[knobtwiddler]

...and ATC is sought after typically by the less knowledgable engineers.

You mean ones like George Massenburg? He's one of the most respected audio engineers alive, with a CV of multi-platinum artists. He specified ATC for Blackbird Studios, a cost-no-object exercise. He invented the state-variable parametric EQ (ever used one? You'd have to visit a real studio to do that...).

I've worked at numerous studios that have ATCs. I've never come across a monitor that's more trusted by producers and mix engineers (to the point where some travel with their ATCs - and carry-cases were made by the firm when they found out people were doing this).

Either you've never worked in a pro studio, or live in a parallel universe somewhere.

ATCs can't measure as flat as others that have DSP correction. Maybe they have spots that are a dB or two out here and there. In reality, there is no such thing as the perfect monitor - every model represents a balance of compromises. Judging from real world users and awards, you must be smoking something to argue with ATC's pedigree in studios (or maybe you've never set foot in one and are just a troll who posts fake information?). ATCs have a balance of compromises that gives real world results, fact.

 

[Space is the place]

I'm with Mr Knobtwiddler above . I have a fair bit of experience with the larger 3 way actives ATC's and quite like what they do, they seem to render pianos and acoustic basses really well. They seem like a good tool for the job, listening to and recording music.

As other have pointed out above, i'm sure other manufactures active speakers are comparable and might be better in some regards (and certainly cheaper for similar performance), but after a few years if your monitor develops a fault, my experience is you can't get the parts for them, with a company like ATC, or PMC thinking about it, you can still get drivers, the amps fixed and cabinets modified if necessary years down the line.

Saying all that, i did listen to a pair of the ATC special edition 50 (Elipse shaped £50k!) recently at a hifi show, they sounded pretty dire, lean and shouty. I was very surprised to see the head guy from ATC in the room! He must have been in hundreds of studios over the years so why he didn't have a hand in fixing the sound in this room who knows? A big disappointment!
Other rooms at the hotel were also running ATC 100 and 150, both these rooms sounded great. Image HIFI Pig.

https://www.hifipig.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/NWAS-2026-Report-first-ground-floor-cars-LIN-202606270081.jpg

 

[Mart68]

Saying all that, i did listen to a pair of the ATC special edition 50 (Elipse shaped £50k!) recently at a hifi show, they sounded pretty dire, lean and shouty.

I was at the same show and thought they were pretty good. Certainly one of the better rooms at the show. I was there Sunday maybe you heard them the day before and they'd sorted the issue since? My colleague also liked them (and he doesn't like anything ) and I've seen only one other negative comment on them to date.