Maybe a free beer from dealer as a third benefit?
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ATC speakers / Monitors
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DSJR
Master Contributor
The UK.
DSJR
Master Contributor
Regarding types of speaker stands...
there *may* be a genuine difference between a solid flat-fronted stand and an open frame type I gather, as the flat fronted type may happen to give the main driver the impression of a larger baffle. I'm treading on eggshells here as I have no documented proof to offer, but I'm sure I remember slight bass-perception differences in the ATC 20 and 20T and other speakers I recall but can't definitively mention.
there *may* be a genuine difference between a solid flat-fronted stand and an open frame type I gather, as the flat fronted type may happen to give the main driver the impression of a larger baffle. I'm treading on eggshells here as I have no documented proof to offer, but I'm sure I remember slight bass-perception differences in the ATC 20 and 20T and other speakers I recall but can't definitively mention.
Those who think that blind tests are worthwhile, cite probably what blockader said as reasons for this. Others, who dispute the value of blind tests, see many problems involved which can compromise the results :
We listen to an unknown system, in an unknown room, music that is mostly not of our choice, we have limited time to listen, we have no chance to relax, we are constantly under stress, our attention fades very quickly, there are a bunch of people around and it bothers us...
It all look like a general mess.
Personally I don't know anyone, and I know a lot of people from the hifi world, who ever participated in some seriously organized blind test. So I would like to hear from at least someone who really participated in it, how he was satisfied, what he gained.
Dernie and gesture said something interesting, but is it really necessary to do a blind test in that cases? An ordinary test can usualy reveal whether or not there are differencies. That is easy part.
The hard part is to decide are these differencies important enough to us , so to buy a product.
We listen to an unknown system, in an unknown room, music that is mostly not of our choice, we have limited time to listen, we have no chance to relax, we are constantly under stress, our attention fades very quickly, there are a bunch of people around and it bothers us...
It all look like a general mess.
Personally I don't know anyone, and I know a lot of people from the hifi world, who ever participated in some seriously organized blind test. So I would like to hear from at least someone who really participated in it, how he was satisfied, what he gained.
Dernie and gesture said something interesting, but is it really necessary to do a blind test in that cases? An ordinary test can usualy reveal whether or not there are differencies. That is easy part.
The hard part is to decide are these differencies important enough to us , so to buy a product.
I was looking for a DAC that could deal with more sample rates than my Goldmund so I was checking to see which was worth buying, and doing it at home on a system I was familiar with with my own music.
Your assumptions are completely wrong and illogical IME.
Sure I couldn't do it with speakers, but it can be done at home scientifically rigorously with electronics.
I have done it with amplifiers too, but the DACs were easiest to be completely rigorous.
I am not following you...what assumptions, what is illogical?
DatSpeakerTho
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Idk about any impressions of larger baffle, but I plan on rebuilding some monitor stands that are more open. The first pair I made are solid and about the same width as the bookshelf speakers that sit on them. They give me a reflection in the 400hz-ish range that is in pretty much every measurement I've taken with them. It seems to cause a dip.
I have some 'bass module' stand things too and when I put bookshelf speakers on that, I get a similar dip. So perhaps flat faced big stands aren't ideal.
RexrothPigeon
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This is exactly what charlatans say when their "magic tricks" or "clairvoyance" fails miserably in controlled conditions. Maybe the blind testers just don't have the right "vibes" lmao.
If you need perfect comfort and solitude to hear something, guess what? it's bullshit and you were always only imagining it.
RexrothPigeon
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I reported the first derail but got "Off topic but allowing for now" from a mod
Not a single one of these points is required to be true, they can all be false simultaneously, and often are.
RexrothPigeon
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and yet there will always be room for some kind of similarly self-serving excuse
No, it does't, but could be true...
Fair enough
What left us with atc...not a bad topic.
And indeed there was.and yet there will always be room for some kind of similarly self-serving excuse
Anyway...
I saw this review that Troels Gravesen did of the Volt VM527. It seems that the big anti phase resonance on this dome is due to a lack of damping behind the diaphragm. I wonder if ATC's is doing the same, I haven't seen an SM75-150 apart in a while but I don't recall seeing any sort of damping but I know they have a notch going on around 4500hz.
I saw this review that Troels Gravesen did of the Volt VM527. It seems that the big anti phase resonance on this dome is due to a lack of damping behind the diaphragm. I wonder if ATC's is doing the same, I haven't seen an SM75-150 apart in a while but I don't recall seeing any sort of damping but I know they have a notch going on around 4500hz.
That all blind tests are with unfamiliar equipment in an unfamiliar room with unfamiliar music. post 6404.
When I was at school I would say between 3/4 and ⅔ of the students either had low interest in or little aptitude for science. As a result they chose not to study it leaving them with very, very shaky foundations on which to build opinions about things technical. This often leads to illogical statements.
The example in the video below is the kind of extreme testing of different surfaces underneath a sound source I was referring to earlier. And yes, I know, it will never be as extreme with a loudspeaker on any normal speaker stand, but with soft feet that completely decouple the loudspeaker from the stand and the floor underneath the stand, you will eliminate any risk of possible resonances or uncontrolled amplification caused by the change of mass.
Some of you may need a blind listening test for this...
Some of you may need a blind listening test for this...
You are much clearer now.
I assume you are talking about a blind tests that you conduct in your home on your system, where you are the only listener. If so, I'm not saying that it's not useful for you, undoubtedly you have your own "logic" behind it, but what you do in your house is your business, it doesn't concern me at all.
I also have my own ways of testing and evaluating devices in my house and that's just me.
But I'm talking here about the public blind tests that were conducted, and perhaps still are conducted, by some magazines that I followed at the time. No matter how many arguments there were in favor of blind tests, there were also many against.
A few years ago, at a hifi fair in my city, a dealer organized such a test in a special room, with about 15 listeners. I didn't actively participate in the test, but I was present, I hung around (like many others) and saw how it roughly works.
It was a rather tense and unpleasant atmosphere for me, the music and devices were chosen by the dealer, and I was not interested in either.
What I was sure of was that I could never form an opinion based on such listening. Maybe someone can, good luck.
Ps. I warn you that we have gone off topic, which is atc... and I suggest that we end the matter here
Ultrasonic
Major Contributor
To save anyone else hunting, here's measurements of the ATC mid for comparison:
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