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ATC speakers / Monitors

I sold them too and have tried to be fair in earlier posts!

Just get some KH420s, as they're so very much cheaper...
Just get some KH420s, as they're so very much cheaper...

good point,

But...

Another problem here is that those (Neuman and Genelec) are actives, that would mean i'd have to change more than just the speakers right?

Anyways i don't find them lacking sound-wise, so i will stick with them for now
 
Just get some KH420s, as they're so very much cheaper...
Much uglier for someone to have in a home setup though. I do like how the SCM40s look*. And part of their cost realistically is the cabinet.

*Mine are the cherry finish.
 
Their cheapest SCM7 model costs £1095 in the UK? This is buying new too, whereas lots will buy ATC speakers used. I did mine.
In 1996 prices was approx :
Scm10,the cheapest atc 1.200 gbp
Scm20 about 2.000 gbp
Scm50 ...4.500 gbp
 
Just get some KH420s, as they're so very much cheaper...
Actually just checking the price looks pretty much identical to the SCM40 actives, at least in the UK. About £8500 a pair.
 
At that time i auditioned them against a couple of other speakers in roughly the same price category, both at the dealer and at home, they came out winning.

Again, knowing what i know now about measurements, (through this forum) i might make different choices.
You did the hard work here, you listened to several pairs of speakers at the dealer and at home and decided on the scm40. If you had known the measurements then, you say that your purchase decision might have been different. Does that mean you would then buy speakers based on measurements rather than listening? Please clarify this a bit.
 
You did the hard work here, you listened to several pairs of speakers at the dealer and at home and decided on the scm40. If you had known the measurements then, you say that your purchase decision might have been different. Does that mean you would then buy speakers based on measurements rather than listening? Please clarify this a bit.
That is a good point,
And i honestly don't know:(

Of course i did not have any measurements available of the other speakers i auditioned either,
so all i CAN say is that, back then based on listening in my own living room and elsewhere (subjective as hell, i know) the ATC's came out winning.

Audition should still be a very important part of the final purchase i think, but if you have measurements beforehand it's easier to separate the chaff from the wheat i guess
it can give you a better directory, find trustworthy independent tests (like Erin's, or Amir's) narrow your choice down to a couple brands or models, and then listen to them
when possible of course!

I mean,... there might be a hundred brands of speakers that are objectively (through measurements) better, as well as worse ones!
problem will always be, that it's utterly impossible to test/audition them all.
Forums like this are a big help to make those choices a bit easier, and not just for speakers.
 
Much uglier for someone to have in a home setup though. I do like how the SCM40s look*. And part of their cost realistically is the cabinet.

*Mine are the cherry finish.
Wife hates the mesh grilles. I do like the 'solid' tones of the 40A and knowing what I know and have experienced I'd never look at passive ones. Apologies folks, as my constant bleating about the inferiority of their three way passives is encouraging sharp kickback. I've been there, done direct comparisons and alsodone a few active upgrades when it was more affordable then (and never had the end-user saying they sounded worse active).

As for the KH420s, what the heck do you want - a seriously good sound or a stylish box? Okay, @Purité Audio would have alternatives that may well look better domestically and sound as good at domestic levels for mid-field listening (3 - 4m listening distance). I've not heard them, but anyone in the UK with a genuine interest should try to hear some alternatives :)
 
Wife hates the mesh grilles.
I doubt many use them. I don't. I agree with your wife that they don't look great, although they would offer better protection than just cloth for those that want/need it.
 
As for the KH420s, what the heck do you want - a seriously good sound or a stylish box?
Oh, and in my lounge the aesthetics are a factor.
 
I've had two pairs of SCM20A SL Pros. The first pair I bought second hand (I was the third owner) in 2011 as a friend sold them to me for a good price. One woofer had an issue and as they were still under the (6 year?) transferrable warranty, ATC fixed them for free. They had the metal "Darth Vader" enclosures and the Vifa tweeters. I loved them but I traded them in for a new pair of the Mk IIs (square MDF cabinets, in house tweeters) a few years ago, as they were showing signs of age, and the Mk IIs were a definite improvement, especially in the clarity of the high end.

I use them for everything. I've been a mastering engineer since 2009, so work, TV, PC, streaming, gaming, movies, blurays, DVDs, vinyl, recording/playback/mixing guitar, bass, drum machines and synths etc. The hub comprises a 55" monitor, the ATCs, desktop PC, an RME ADI Pro 2/4 SE interface and a Rega RP6 turntable. I still love the ATCs. I'd like a pair of the SCM50A SL Pros and/or the SCS70 Pro sub at some point, but I don't think I have large enough room dimensions for that right now, and we will be moving back to Japan soon, where the room will likely be smaller.

Sorry I don't have any measurements either, so my subjective opinions will have to do (I can see them running for cover...) but the main reason I dig them is that I trust them to give me the truth more than a lot of other monitors I have heard. They let me work quickly and efficiently and just blend into the background. They are super reliable and sound similar at all volume levels. I've mastered thousands of albums over the last 15 years or so and clients are happy too, for whatever that's worth. I love their low distortion. I'd never state there aren't better sounding/better performing/better measuring monitors out there, but they work for me so I'm sticking with them. In a professional context, reliability and speed of workflow count for a lot.

When upgrading I deliberately avoided the 25s and 40s due to their lack of SL spec. I heard them all at the dealers (FunkyJunk in Milan) back to back with the 20s and preferred the 20s (and 50s...), but it's hard to gauge when it's not your own space.

It's interesting to read this thread, there is obviously a lot of love and hate for the brand. It's pretty divisive and at times feels too confrontational for me. I couldn't care less about measurements which is why I don't hang here very much, but Branko was interested in hearing other users opinions so here was my two penneth!
 
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Wife hates the mesh grilles. I do like the 'solid' tones of the 40A and knowing what I know and have experienced I'd never look at passive ones. Apologies folks, as my constant bleating about the inferiority of their three way passives is encouraging sharp kickback. I've been there, done direct comparisons and alsodone a few active upgrades when it was more affordable then (and never had the end-user saying they sounded worse active).

As for the KH420s, what the heck do you want - a seriously good sound or a stylish box? Okay, @Purité Audio would have alternatives that may well look better domestically and sound as good at domestic levels for mid-field listening (3 - 4m listening distance). I've not heard them, but anyone in the UK with a genuine interest should try to hear some alternatives :)
2 year warranty put me right off any Neumann products,if I’m spending silly money I want long term warranties.
 
I take it from that the SCM40 active uses something lower spec? Do you know any more details on the amps in the SCM40 actives?

As per my signature, I'm currently using Hypex Nilai Monos into SCM40 passives and am curious how the performance of this combination might compare to the SCM40 actives. I was guessing the actives should still have the edge but your above comment slightly makes me wonder.
There was the story of a dealer from NY. He was engaged in the sale of atc speakers as well as equipment of other top companies.
Since he was personally interested in it, he wanted to see if he could put together a passive atc system that would beat an active atc system. He had on hand, in the shop, the top amplifiers of the time, Krell, Levinson, Treshold... His conclusion was that a passive atc can never beat an active one no matter what amps you attach to it.
 
When upgrading I deliberately avoided the 25s and 40s due to their lack of SL spec. I heard them all at the dealers (FunkyJunk in Milan) back to back with the 20s and preferred the 20s (and 50s...), but it's hard to gauge when it's not your own space.

Could you give a more in-depth description of why you prefer SCM20 over the SCM25 and the SCM40?

Do you find the S-spec tweeter to sound different from the ones found in the 25s and 40s, or is it mainly the Super Linear mid/bass driver that does it for you?
 
I had ATC 50s for a while, many years ago -- which means they still had the 3rd party sourced tweeters (Vifa I think).
I liked the sound in my living room, and they went loud without a hitch -- albeit, I found them lacking somewhat in bass extension compared to the rest (probably the result of mediocre speaker placement at the time and /or my TT & phono equaliser).
Forgiving / "revealing": I take this term to correlate to linear, flat mid to high frequency reponse, with controlled, narrow-ish, directivity: I don't remember any complaints here. As mentioned above, I too want to hear sonic details contained in the recording; it usually makes the experience more enjoyable. Furthermore, nowadays, if we hit an "unlistenable" mastering (recording, whatever), there is always the option of tinkering with the file to make it listenable...
In my room the bass of the scm50 varies from point to point in space. There are places in the room where the bass is weaker, but there are also places where the balance is very good. Fortunately, this is the most common position in the room. I listen to music from those positions.
I guess that's the price I'm currently paying for an acoustically untreated room.
That will change in the future for the better, I hope.
 
In my room the bass of the scm50 varies from point to point in space. There are places in the room where the bass is weaker, but there are also places where the balance is very good. Fortunately, this is the most common position in the room. I listen to music from those positions.
I guess that's the price I'm currently paying for an acoustically untreated room.
That will change in the future for the better, I hope.
https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=500&w=400&h=300&slf=0&swf=0&shf=0&tlf=1&twf=1&thf=1&rt60=0.21
 
Bruny Putzeys has opinions about this:
Part 1
Part 2

Interesting articles, although very DSP-focused and ATC actives don't actually use DSP.

Many of the DSP benefits can also be realised outside of the speakers too, as I do. As specifically the impulse and step response were focused on I'll just share below a couple of quick measurements I made at my listening position. The red results are for one of my passive SCM40s run full-range and with no DSP at all. The blue results are for how I have my system actually configured, with the SCM40s crossed over to my PSA S1510 sub at 108 Hz (48 dB/octave LR), with EQ based on time-gated on-axis measurement at high frequencies (principally to remove the crossover dip) and Dirac Live applied up to 200 Hz. (The first reflection you can see is from the back of my sofa.)

SCM40 Impulse Response with and without DSP.jpg


SCM40 Step Response with and without DSP.jpg
 
As per my signature, I'm currently using Hypex Nilai Monos into SCM40 passives and am curious how the performance of this combination might compare to the SCM40 actives. I was guessing the actives should still have the edge but your above comment slightly makes me wonder.
The actives are better simply because they can time-align the crossovers to eliminate any excess phase rotation. They have a couple of adjustable all-pass filters that are set at factory. it's not like the PSI cascading APF network that makes them linear phase above the woofer:cabinet interaction but it does make them closer to an ideal minimum phase XO.
Another problem here is that those (Neuman and Genelec) are actives, that would mean i'd have to change more than just the speakers right?
Well, you'd pretty much just not need external amps.
 
The actives are better simply because they can time-align the crossovers to eliminate any excess phase rotation. They have a couple of adjustable all-pass filters that are set at factory. it's not like the PSI cascading APF network that makes them linear phase above the woofer:cabinet interaction but it does make them closer to an ideal minimum phase XO.
What would cause excess phase rotation in the SCM40, that could have an audible effect, while not affecting crossover point summation? I expect the latter to work well in that speaker.
 
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