and get money back?
If so, that's the only way I would buy speakers!
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ATC speakers / Monitors
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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If so, that's the only way I would buy speakers!
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You can sell them. Why do you care so much?
Then testing own ears should be on order.
I suspect that absolute majority of those who writes on this forum cannot afford ATC products, thus pleasing them would have no real business value. Those who can afford them, simply visit dealer and listen. Considering scarcity of dealers (in USA), it often means buying a flight ticket to NYC, LA or Nashville.
This is what I had to do... I ended up buying KH420s instead.
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Is that so? I thought the situation in the US was much better than in Europe.
I know such a situation well. And that was always the decisive factor for me when choosing a hifi device: whether I can see and hear it or not. If not, then, a device is out of consideration.
In my country there is only one official dealer for atc speakers. But he, apart from 2-3 models from the atc entry series, has nothing else in showroom. If you want to buy something more serious from atc, you have to place an order and pay all in advance, then wait a month or more for the device to arrive.
If I wanted to actualy hear something from, say, the atc classic series, I would have to travel to a neighboring country where there is a much more serious dealer. And that is 530 km away.
Sokel
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That's (some of) the value of close community and friends from the hobby (the rest is the fun, it wouldn't be the same without the gatherings)
There's always someone who has a pair, at least a pair of classic, all-time selling speakers.
DatSpeakerTho
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More like they know educated people wont pony up the insane asking prices because they know they can do better for less. Lots of folks here have atc money but they have brains so somewhat allergic to atc.
Idk, all this justification for atc making lame speakers and charging hilarious mark up comes off as sad to me. like im in some parallel universe where people are unable to recognize anything for what it is.
Depends where you are in the US. New York, LA, Nashville - sure. Elsewhere? Not much pro stuff.
I mean, they're not "lame" per se. They're generally fine. Definitely not SOTA, but they're far from bad - I'd say a step or two better than e.g. Dynaudio, but below the likes of Neumann etc in terms of performance.
In the realms of "audiophile speakers" they're decidedly above average but not top tier.
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That is probably the case with these things in all countries. Pro stuff and some brands in general are hard to find, and if there are stores that sell them, it's a slim chance that they have the specific model you are after for demo.
All types of ATC speakers are hard to find in my country. I bought my SCM40s without listening to them as a pair of demo units from a store 1000 km from where I live, but I figured I could resell them without loss if I found out I didn't like them.
I would like to be able to have a home demo of the active SCM50s and compare them to the 40s. Sure, the active part will probably be a step up, but as I use my 40s with two subwoofers, I’m not sure that combination doesn't already have more dynamic capacity than what the 50s would have on their own.
But while I'm interested in hearing the 50s in my place, I really don't expect a large performance boost, as it already sounds fantastic as it is.
The thing is that there isn't much more to squeeze out of any music material. I know too much about audio production to think there are any hidden qualities in the music productions I'm missing out on. So what else would I need than what I already got? I already have a clear, clean, dynamic full-range sound, and that with more SPL capacity than I ever want to use.
Did you hear ATC models 50 and up to make that statement?
DatSpeakerTho
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I got some time mixing on scm100. Just sounded old to me, lacked envelopment.
DatSpeakerTho
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Genelec.
Scm40mk2 and scm50 have different drivers, all three of them, the 50's beeing more advanced. The big price difference between these two models probably comes primarily from that fact, and maybe from some other differences that aren't so obvious.That is probably the case with these things in all countries. Pro stuff and some brands in general are hard to find, and if there are stores that sell them, it's a slim chance that they have the specific model you are after for demo.
All types of ATC speakers are hard to find in my country. I bought my SCM40s without listening to them as a pair of demo units from a store 1000 km from where I live, but I figured I could resell them without loss if I found out I didn't like them.
I would like to be able to have a home demo of the active SCM50s and compare them to the 40s. Sure, the active part will probably be a step up, but as I use my 40s with two subwoofers, I’m not sure that combination doesn't already have more dynamic capacity than what the 50s would have on their own.
But while I'm interested in hearing the 50s in my place, I really don't expect a large performance boost, as it already sounds fantastic as it is.
The thing is that there isn't much more to squeeze out of any music material. I know too much about audio production to think there are any hidden qualities in the music productions I'm missing out on. So what else would I need than what I already got? I already have a clear, clean, dynamic full-range sound, and that with more SPL capacity than I ever want to use.
Their purpose is different. Scm40 is designed for home hifi and scm50 is designed for pro use. The fact that the scm50 (as well as some larger atc models) made its way into home systems is almost an anomaly.
For professionals, there is no dilemma, they will take the scm50 over scm40, as they need the tool they make a living from.
For hifi users, for music lovers, such decision is much more difficult, they should carefully assess whether they need the scm50 at all, and what exactly they should spend so much money for. And that is not easy to do. Scm50 needs to be seen and heard somewhere, but not superficially or at a hifi fair. To buy such a speaker, for such a capital investment, you may have to travel a long way, and also be prepared to be maybe disappointed at destination.
Since I bought the scm50, about 10 people have visited my home to hear and see the scm50. The score was : 1-2 said they really like the speaker and would love to have it. 2 said they don't like the speaker for the most part : it doesn't have enough bass, it has to be played loud, the design is outdated, the price is too high, etc... (it's probably needless to say that I don't agree with any of the above) The others were scratching their heads, they didn't have a clear opinion, they liked something about the scm50 and something they didn't, mostly they talked about how much the sound could be improved with other amplifiers, cables, dac, etc., you know, audiophile stuff. Well, it probably could, especially with the acoustic treatment of the room.
But nothing dramatic happened, the sky didn't open for the vast soundstage, the ceiling didn't fall as much as the dynamics were, atc just played music. But nobody came to listen to the music, but to see what miracle scm50 can perform.
But no problem, that was to be expected.
I myself have been in their positions and in similar situations many times.
Atc is not a speaker that will appeal to everyone, neither by design, nor by sound, nor by measurements, and certainly not by the price. But the same can be said for any other brand.
In my experience, it doesn't really matter which brand it is, there are many good brands out there. More important is how much the buyer knows exactly what he wants and needs, whether he is skilled enough to recognize it when the opportunity arises and how much money he is ready to spend for it.
I don't really expect much difference in sound quality from the S-spec drivers in the SCM50. The S drivers are supposed to be a bit more efficient and be able to handle more abuse, but I would be surprised if there is a noticeable sound quality difference over the drivers in the 40s.
The super linear bass driver in the 50s might be a bit better as well, but the question there is the same: will the sound quality differ other than the driver being larger, and therefore a bit cleaner when it comes to distortion? I don't know.
I’m not sure about why you think the 50s is geared only towards professional use, as there is a Hi-Fi version of that model, as shown in the picture below.
Would I choose the 50s over the 40s, yes, most definitely, but I don't see myself ever buying such an expensive loudspeaker, no matter how highly it's rated. Good room integration and some acoustic treatment make it possible to reach a really good overall sound with the 40s, even the passive ones.
But maybe, just maybe, I own a pair of the 50s in the future.
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The S spec drivers have significantly lower harmonic distortion - the drivers in the SCM40 are already very low THD (as seen in the measurements posted earlier in this thread).
The SCM50 upwards also has a diffraction reduction rolled edge built into the grille. You can see the top part of this in the brow on the top of the Special Editions. TBH I don't think this has as much of an impact on sonics as many might think in a domestic setting. In pro studios it does make quite a difference, but in a more reverberant space... much less so.
The SCM50 upwards (and SCM20) have a higher spec amplifier pack with the same circuits used in the P1 and P2 amplifiers.
FYI, ATC do actually make a professional version of the SCM40 - it's called the SCM25A. Same mid and woofer, but in a smaller ported enclosure and with the higher spec tweeter. They're basically the most popular speaker found in studios here in the UK (even over NS10s).
The SCM50 upwards also has a diffraction reduction rolled edge built into the grille. You can see the top part of this in the brow on the top of the Special Editions. TBH I don't think this has as much of an impact on sonics as many might think in a domestic setting. In pro studios it does make quite a difference, but in a more reverberant space... much less so.
The SCM50 upwards (and SCM20) have a higher spec amplifier pack with the same circuits used in the P1 and P2 amplifiers.
FYI, ATC do actually make a professional version of the SCM40 - it's called the SCM25A. Same mid and woofer, but in a smaller ported enclosure and with the higher spec tweeter. They're basically the most popular speaker found in studios here in the UK (even over NS10s).
As far as I could find out, the atc classic series and the atc pro series have 100% the same drivers, crossover and amplifiers in the active version.
The differences are:
The Pro version only offers a black finish, (I'm assuming it's black paint over mediapan) while the Classic series has many finishes in different veneers.
The Pro series does not have grills, which is why the edges of the front panel are rounded.
On the pro series, the tweeter can be placed in another position, there is an opening with a cover on the baffle intended for that.
The classic series comes with factory stands with spikes, while the pro series does not.
What I have not been able to find out is whether the pro series (in the passive version) also offers three wiring terminals for the speakers as the classic series has.
The differences are:
The Pro version only offers a black finish, (I'm assuming it's black paint over mediapan) while the Classic series has many finishes in different veneers.
The Pro series does not have grills, which is why the edges of the front panel are rounded.
On the pro series, the tweeter can be placed in another position, there is an opening with a cover on the baffle intended for that.
The classic series comes with factory stands with spikes, while the pro series does not.
What I have not been able to find out is whether the pro series (in the passive version) also offers three wiring terminals for the speakers as the classic series has.
Beneath the fancy wood veneer, the scm50 is a thoroughbred studio monitor. It was created and conceived as a studio monitor from its very beginning, since 1986.
Until 2000, it was not widely known outside of pro audio.
In 2000, j.gordon holt, founder of stereophile magazine, reviewed the scm50A. He was so taken with the speaker that he bought a tested pair and kept for the rest of his life.
Probably from that moment the scm50 slowly began its parallel life as a home speaker.
Classic and pro version are completely identical speakers, with identical sound, there is no "voicing" or "fine tunning" for home or studio.
Until 2000, it was not widely known outside of pro audio.
In 2000, j.gordon holt, founder of stereophile magazine, reviewed the scm50A. He was so taken with the speaker that he bought a tested pair and kept for the rest of his life.
Probably from that moment the scm50 slowly began its parallel life as a home speaker.
Classic and pro version are completely identical speakers, with identical sound, there is no "voicing" or "fine tunning" for home or studio.
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