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ATC speakers / Monitors

Branko said:
So...you like devices that meet certain measurement criteria and that, in your opinion, have a sound that is neutral, uncolored. That's fine.
And that is your personal choice and nothing more.

On the other hand, there is a vast majority of hifi users, who have different approach to the same subject. They are not interested in any measurements and pick devices based solely on their personal impression of the sound. They are not looking for "neutral" sound.
And that is their personal choice and nothing more.
But we have to accept and respect that.

It is wrong to look down on other people's choices and with a touch of arrogance. It's even rude if you ask me.

We must also not forget that one of the very important criteria is the aesthetics of the device. For some, it is the only important criterion.

So, in the end, everything comes down to one single thing, and that is a personal, subjective choice, whatever the criteria are.
Branko likes this and RexrothPigeon likes that.
So what, who cares.
Should we call a judge to judge who is right?
Or should we enjoy our choice and let other people do the same.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Yes, aesthetics are important, but only AFTER accuracy, otherwise you already apply a sauce or salt/pepper before you even tasted.
I like ketchup, i really do, but not all the time on all food, just saying :cool:
 
It is perfectly acceptable to use an ‘effects’ box, just no longer Hi-Fi.
Keith
 
Amplifiers with tone controls everybody is happy.

Some are just beautiful
IMG_20260528_121715.jpg
 
Branko said:
On the other hand, there is a vast majority of hifi users, who have different approach to the same subject. They are not interested in any measurements and pick devices based solely on their personal impression of the sound. They are not looking for "neutral" sound.
Click to expand...

Research has already been done to show that the average user IS looking for neutrality. I guess you have some peer reviewed research you've done you'd like to share that says otherwise?

Boy this is getting kind of old, can you like, maybe learn a thing or two about audio before tossing out misinformation, ugh. What you want is Floyd Toole's research.
 
Branko said:
maybe it should call it Our-Fi so everybody be happy
Click to expand...
Or maybe you could learn a bit, including about hi-fi history.

The only formal definition of "hifi" was DIN 45500, which listed minimum technical requirements for various types of gear. Long obsolete or course, but you see... it's an objective technical definition, not a subjective "I like it" one. :p
 
I'm the guy who actually always was in the search for the "neutral" sound. Also, I appreciate devices made by engineers and not some self-taught craftsmen and market managers. I firmly believe in scientific approach to audio. If not, I would never have bought an entire system from a company that has "neutrality" as its middle name (ATC)
But "neutrality" is such a well-worn term that it means nothing at all. Everyone says they want neutrality, but when you look closely, many use devices that can hardly meet that criterion. But it doesn't matter to them, they found "their" neutrality.
I have defended "neutrality" many times against my hifi buddies who were leaning towards a strictly audiophile approach. But today I'm not interested in doing that anymore.
I have come to terms with the fact that sound quality will always remain a purely subjective category, and therefore the choice of equipment.
Honestly, I don't understand why there is so much resistance on this forum to that obvious fact.
 
Everyone is free to enjoy as much distortion as they choose to add , as long as you are aware that it is just distortion and not ‘musical communication’ or some such other nonsense.
Keith
 
"As long as enjoy what they hear, they would not worry about distorsion"

When it comes for personal listening pleasure such is absolutely fine, it is problematic only when a sounded reproduction chain in used in the mixing or mastering chain as the result becomes unique and undefined and the audio's circle of confusion is continued:

seanolive.blogspot.com

Audio's Circle of Confusion

Audio’s “Circle of Confusion” is a term coined by Floyd Toole [1] that describes the confusion that exists within the audio recording and r...
seanolive.blogspot.com seanolive.blogspot.com
 
Branko said:
I'm the guy who actually always was in the search for the "neutral" sound. Also, I appreciate devices made by engineers and not some self-taught craftsmen and market managers. I firmly believe in scientific approach to audio. If not, I would never have bought an entire system from a company that has "neutrality" as its middle name (ATC)
But "neutrality" is such a well-worn term that it means nothing at all. Everyone says they want neutrality, but when you look closely, many use devices that can hardly meet that criterion. But it doesn't matter to them, they found "their" neutrality.
I have defended "neutrality" many times against my hifi buddies who were leaning towards a strictly audiophile approach. But today I'm not interested in doing that anymore.
I have come to terms with the fact that sound quality will always remain a purely subjective category, and therefore the choice of equipment.
Honestly, I don't understand why there is so much resistance on this forum to that obvious fact.
Click to expand...
If an amplifier has a characteristic sound, that characteristic is present in all recordings you put to play.

"I have come to terms with the fact that sound quality will always remain a purely subjective category, and therefore the choice of equipment."

No. The fact is that your taste is purely subjective.

The sound I may like or not has to do with how the recording was made, the choices of the producers, engineers, artists.

As for signal amplifiers, they should only be evaluated by technical measurements.

You may not agree, but most of those in this forum have had similar ways of thinking. I identify with your argument, but that was a while ago
 
Last edited:
thewas said:
"As long as enjoy what they hear, they would not worry about distorsion"

When it comes for personal listening pleasure such is absolutely fine, it is problematic only when a sounded reproduction chain in used in the mixing or mastering chain as the result becomes unique and undefined and the audio's circle of confusion is continued:

seanolive.blogspot.com

Audio's Circle of Confusion

Audio’s “Circle of Confusion” is a term coined by Floyd Toole [1] that describes the confusion that exists within the audio recording and r...
seanolive.blogspot.com seanolive.blogspot.com
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you.
But haven't you noticed until now that I mentioned several times that I'm talking exclusively about hifi and not about professional audio.
 
Branko said:
I'm talking exclusively about hifi and not about professional audio
Click to expand...
No, you're not. Hi-fi means "high fidelity" which means its goal is to reproduce the source as faithfully as possible, without coloring it.

If you are interested in hi-fi, really, you must learn about modern measurements. They have changed the game, and it will never go back to the Old Ways of superstition and witch-doctors.
 
"Your taste is purely subjective"

Yes it is, as it is yours and everybody elses.
Whether they are aware of it or not

"...they should only be evaluated by technical measurements."

O how I whish it could be possible!
Would you buy an amp without cheking on sound quality first? Not ever

" if you are interested in hi-fi, really, you must learn about modern measurements".

If you would like to discover what is in the core of hifi you should learn to listen to your likings and leave technical stuff to the people who is making living on that
 
Branko said:
"Your taste is purely subjective"

Yes it is, as it is yours and everybody elses.
Whether they are aware of it or not

"...they should only be evaluated by technical measurements."

O how I whish it could be possible!
Would you buy an amp without cheking on sound quality first? Not ever

" if you are interested in hi-fi, really, you must learn about modern measurements".

If you would like to discover what is in the core of hifi you should learn to listen to your likings and leave technical stuff to the people who is making living on that
Click to expand...

You're not really talking to people in good faith and are endlessly contrarian. Not really adding anything to thread. Maybe take an internet break.
 
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