ATC speakers / Monitors

[Ropeburn]

ATC obviously use the Klippel NFS for product development, and not for bragging rights. I doubt they will make them public.

Pretty cool that they have had the Klippel NFS for a couple of years now without even mentioning it. I guess they are one of the very few loudspeaker manufacturers in the world who have their own Klippel system.

I really hope you're joking

References

Customers of KLIPPEL Products

www.klippel.de

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

I have scm7 ll and c1 that I can measure for spl, distortion and directivity (indoors gated). I also have scm50aslt, but these will be more difficult to manipulate, but still could do something within the gated resolution.

 

[goat76]

I really hope you're joking

References

Customers of KLIPPEL Products

www.klippel.de

No, I’m not joking.

Klippel makes many types of measurement equipment, which I'm sure many loudspeaker manufacturers use. But when speaking specifically about their Near Field Scanner System, there probably aren't many manufacturers with their own units. According to another member here, there was only one single Klippel NFS in the whole of the U.K. I guess there are at least two now, since ATC has bought one.

Do you know of any other loudspeaker manufacturers besides ATC, AsciLab, and Audio First Designs that have their own Klippel NFS?

 

[Ropeburn]

No, I’m not joking.

Klippel makes many types of measurement equipment, which I'm sure many loudspeaker manufacturers use. But when speaking specifically about their Near Field Scanner System, there probably aren't many manufacturers with their own units. According to another member here, there was only one single Klippel NFS in the whole of the U.K. I guess there are at least two now, since ATC has bought one.

Do you know of any other loudspeaker manufacturers besides ATC, AsciLab, and Audio First Designs that have their own Klippel NFS?

Canton, Heco/Magnat, Polk, off the top of my head. There must be quite a few more.

 

[dfuller]

No, I’m not joking.

Klippel makes many types of measurement equipment, which I'm sure many loudspeaker manufacturers use. But when speaking specifically about their Near Field Scanner System, there probably aren't many manufacturers with their own units. According to another member here, there was only one single Klippel NFS in the whole of the U.K. I guess there are at least two now, since ATC has bought one.

Do you know of any other loudspeaker manufacturers besides ATC, AsciLab, and Audio First Designs that have their own Klippel NFS?

Ascend, Dynaudio (but they don't use it), PS Audio. That's all that come to the fore for me.

 

[goat76]

Canton, Heco/Magnat, Polk, off the top of my head. There must be quite a few more.

Even if we manage to find 15-20 manufacturers with their own Klippel NFS, I still think ATC is one of the very few loudspeaker manufacturers in the world with its own Klippel NFS system.


The list so far:
ATC
Audio First Designs
AsciLab
Canton
Heco/Magnat
Polk
Ascend
Dynaudio

 

[Atc4ever]

Mine all do!!!* ... And they're from different eras and makers as well, designed to amplify a signal fed them with absolute minimal distortion and ability to drive reasonable speaker loads from ~4 ohms upwards. None however, are lavish audiophool confections designed to have a 'signature sound' to them and with wild response variations with a speaker load hanging on the end!

You won't believe a word of the paragraph above until you've done some testing yourself, level matched and not knowing which is which. It's a real ear-opener I assure you and changes one's entire view of the high end domestic audio industry

* Well, maybe my rebuilt Quad IIs and original 303 sound softer as there's an impedance drop at hf in my current speakers which I believe they're tracking response wise (justifying Quad's claim that all *their* amps sounded the same ).

Let me see...

1. All well engineered amplifiers sound the same. Not true
True : all well engineered amplifiers are safe to use and will serve extended period of time without trouble.

2. All audiophile amplifiers are crap because they are tailored to a specific sound. Not true.
True : audiophile amplifiers reflect specific, even exotic designer's ideas which may or may not resonate with your own.

The question of sound quality is a matter of personal taste and is not subject to objective interpretation.

 

[dfuller]

Let me see...

1. All well engineered amplifiers sound the same. Not true
True : all well engineered amplifiers are safe to use and will serve extended period of time without trouble.

2. All audiophile amplifiers are crap because they are tailored to a specific sound. Not true.
True : audiophile amplifiers reflect specific, even exotic designer's ideas which may or may not resonate with your own.

The question of sound quality is a matter of personal taste and is not subject to objective interpretation.

1. All well-engineered amps sound the same, if they're not clipping.

2. If an amp has a distinct sound, it's not well-engineered.

 

[goat76]

1. All well-engineered amps sound the same, if they're not clipping.

2. If an amp has a distinct sound, it's not well-engineered.

The only thing I want to add, which has the potential to change the sound, is the output impedance.
Erin has an interesting video on the subject called "Should All Amplifiers Sound The Same?"

 

[Ropeburn]

Rule of thumb:

When speaker cables and connectors are the limiting factor, you're safe

 

[dfuller]

The only thing I want to add, which has the potential to change the sound, is the output impedance.
Erin has an interesting video on the subject called "Should All Amplifiers Sound The Same?"

Output Z high enough to have an appreciable effect on frequency response is in my books a bad design.

*Unless it's specifically meant for use as current drive. But outside of a few active systems, this is rare.

 

[Atc4ever]

1. All well-engineered amps sound the same, if they're not clipping.

2. If an amp has a distinct sound, it's not well-engineered.

How about this way :

1. All well engineered amps sound different, clipping or not, but more so if they are clipping.

2. If an amp has a distinct sound that I like, it's engineered well enough for me.

Maybe we can squezze out more funny coments to entertain dear members

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

Maybe you should because all well engineered amplifiers do not sound the same.

By definition they should. Well engineered implies that the amp recreates the input signal without coloration and can meet its rated outputs with low distortion. There's not really any room in there for the amps to sound different if they are actually well engineered.

The amps I have that sound different are not well engineered.

 

[Purité Audio]

How about this way :

1. All well engineered amps sound different, clipping or not, but more so if they are clipping.

2. If an amp has a distinct sound that I like, it's engineered well enough for me.

Maybe we can squezze out more funny coments to entertain dear members

Hang around and you will understand what measurements mean and their correlation to the sound you hear.
Keith

 

[RexrothPigeon]

2. If an amp has a distinct sound that I like, it's engineered well enough for me.

There is no point of a science review if the focus is on what's good enough for you. We know for a fact that if an amp is coloring the sound--if it has a "distinct sound" and it is not neutral and transparent--it is doing something other than just amplifying the source. If your amp is doing something other than just amplifying the source, it is an effects unit. If you find an effects unit that you like, that's absolutely fine, no problem, but we are trying to identify performant equipment here, not "stuff Branko likes".

 

[7Tiger]

Recently stumbled upon this glorious ATC madness while bowsing the web and figured I'd share it here

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

Those are some nice looking genelecs.

 

[7Tiger]

Yep, there are some Genelecs in there too

 

[Mart68]

How about this way :

1. All well engineered amps sound different, clipping or not, but more so if they are clipping.

2. If an amp has a distinct sound that I like, it's engineered well enough for me.

Maybe we can squezze out more funny coments to entertain dear members

Check out the amplifier blind tests in Stereo Review.

In the sighted listening both believers and sceptics heard differences and wrote down extensive notes describing the different sonic characteristics of the amplifiers.

But in the blind testing not a single one of them could tell any of the amplifiers apart.

 

[Atc4ever]

There is no point of a science review if the focus is on what's good enough for you. We know for a fact that if an amp is coloring the sound--if it has a "distinct sound" and it is not neutral and transparent--it is doing something other than just amplifying the source. If your amp is doing something other than just amplifying the source, it is an effects unit. If you find an effects unit that you like, that's absolutely fine, no problem, but we are trying to identify performant equipment here, not "stuff Branko likes".

So...you like devices that meet certain measurement criteria and that, in your opinion, have a sound that is neutral, uncolored. That's fine.
And that is your personal choice and nothing more.

On the other hand, there is a vast majority of hifi users, who have different approach to the same subject. They are not interested in any measurements and pick devices based solely on their personal impression of the sound. They are not looking for "neutral" sound.
And that is their personal choice and nothing more.
But we have to accept and respect that.

It is wrong to look down on other people's choices and with a touch of arrogance. It's even rude if you ask me.

We must also not forget that one of the very important criteria is the aesthetics of the device. For some, it is the only important criterion.

So, in the end, everything comes down to one single thing, and that is a personal, subjective choice, whatever the criteria are.
Branko likes this and RexrothPigeon likes that.
So what, who cares.
Should we call a judge to judge who is right?
Or should we enjoy our choice and let other people do the same.