Are there Klippel measurements for the new limited edition model?
Keith
Keith
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ATC speakers / Monitors
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
- Start date
ATC obviously use the Klippel NFS for product development, and not for bragging rights. I doubt they will make them public.
Pretty cool that they have had the Klippel NFS for a couple of years now without even mentioning it. I guess they are one of the very few loudspeaker manufacturers in the world who have their own Klippel system.
Pretty cool that they have had the Klippel NFS for a couple of years now without even mentioning it. I guess they are one of the very few loudspeaker manufacturers in the world who have their own Klippel system.
DSJR
Master Contributor
If that really is the case, watch this spaceATC obviously use the Klippel NFS for product development, and not for bragging rights. I doubt they will make them public.
Pretty cool that they have had the Klippel NFS for a couple of years now without even mentioning it. I guess they are one of the very few loudspeaker manufacturers in the world who have their own Klippel system.
prices will be ridiculous though, but the market they sell into these days, won't seem to care frankly, as more expensive automatically means better I gather!Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future,Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view,Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.If that really is the case, watch this space
DSJR
Master Contributor
I did, I have!
Be cool if they did. Would set the standard.
Continuing story of scm50...
In the case of the atc scm50psl (2019), the choice of amplifier could be tricky.
If an amplifier is not up to par with these boxes, the results, most certainly, will be unremarkably.
And which amp is up to task, is not quite obviously.
The atc scm10 is only 80db sensitive, scm20 is 83db and scm50 is 85db sensitive.
Looking at what's on paper, scm50 seems to be the most sensitive of the three models.
But in practice, models 10 and 20 can be successfuly driven with an 100w power amp, while scm50 requires much more capable amp and not just in the terms of wattage.
Anyway, I would not bother with anything under 200w and with a good, massive power supply.
Forget about high quality but small amps, about class A, diy projects, tube amps, about everything that we used in the past.
This is a different game.
When I got scm50, I have tried various amps and was somehow surprised that most of them (but not all) performed unsatisfactory, even though they are all good amps that work very well with other, apparently less demanding speakers.
A drastic example was the powerful meridian 557.
While this amp work very good with scm20, or 15inch tannoys, it was great disappointment with scm50, sound was weak, without grip and command. Why? I don't know.
It wasn't until I borrowed another 557 and bridget both that I got really serious sound from scm50.
But there was about 650w per channel. Even the scm50 must respected that!
In the end, I settled with atc ca2mk2 preamp and atc p2 power amp.
That combination turned out to be the best choice, at least to my preferencies and from what I was able to try.
Powerful, transparent and neutral, as are the 50-ties.
In the case of the atc scm50psl (2019), the choice of amplifier could be tricky.
If an amplifier is not up to par with these boxes, the results, most certainly, will be unremarkably.
And which amp is up to task, is not quite obviously.
The atc scm10 is only 80db sensitive, scm20 is 83db and scm50 is 85db sensitive.
Looking at what's on paper, scm50 seems to be the most sensitive of the three models.
But in practice, models 10 and 20 can be successfuly driven with an 100w power amp, while scm50 requires much more capable amp and not just in the terms of wattage.
Anyway, I would not bother with anything under 200w and with a good, massive power supply.
Forget about high quality but small amps, about class A, diy projects, tube amps, about everything that we used in the past.
This is a different game.
When I got scm50, I have tried various amps and was somehow surprised that most of them (but not all) performed unsatisfactory, even though they are all good amps that work very well with other, apparently less demanding speakers.
A drastic example was the powerful meridian 557.
While this amp work very good with scm20, or 15inch tannoys, it was great disappointment with scm50, sound was weak, without grip and command. Why? I don't know.
It wasn't until I borrowed another 557 and bridget both that I got really serious sound from scm50.
But there was about 650w per channel. Even the scm50 must respected that!
In the end, I settled with atc ca2mk2 preamp and atc p2 power amp.
That combination turned out to be the best choice, at least to my preferencies and from what I was able to try.
Powerful, transparent and neutral, as are the 50-ties.
OP
Pearljam5000
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Why not get the active version and be done?
Because it is much more fun this way!
I'm joking, although there is some truth in it.
My acquisition of this atc system was the result of certain circumstances that I took advantage of.
However, I suppose that active scm50 is somewhat better in terms of sound quality.
After all, the manufacturer himself
often points this out.
FWIW, 85dB/2.83V is a dB or two below a typical passive, but they're also 8R nominal speakers, so it's actually about average for dB/W vs a 4R nominal passive. It's also not terribly surprising that the woofer is pretty low sensitivity - they're very high Mms and underhung woofers tend to be a bit less sensitive. The woofer sensitivity drags down everything else, the mid and tweeter are both in the low 90s for 2.83V.
DSJR
Master Contributor
It really is in the narrow bandwidth of the mid dome and the fact it's hand doped (admittedly as carefully as possible but still). That's why care was taken originally in bass to mid matching for phase as well as level. You can't do this properly in the passive three way crossover, no matter how highly specified it is (and they are pretty heavy-duty!). Of course, domestic audiophiles always seem to 'know more' than the designers of such products and as said above, it's more 'fun' for them to tinker around.
I know it's a very long time ago now, but I went to ATC to STOP audiophool tweakery, the monitors then becoming the tool to enjoy music via. Apologies, but I do bristle when I read (elsewhere as well) that the passive models are more 'fun' because one can chop and change amps and cables to try to fine tune the tone and that the active ones are boring because it's all done for you by the designer. This latter vibe is what's held the domestic audio scene back for some decades now I feel.
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As far as I am aware, they had the NFS for just about a year, as we had a conversation about whether to use mine or get their own. I am just glad that more companies are designing products based on measurements!ATC obviously use the Klippel NFS for product development, and not for bragging rights. I doubt they will make them public.
Pretty cool that they have had the Klippel NFS for a couple of years now without even mentioning it. I guess they are one of the very few loudspeaker manufacturers in the world who have their own Klippel system.
I wonder if this will make them tweak things for the two ways which seem to have issues with their baffle step...
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DSJR
Master Contributor
Not a pro model, but the 11 (and maybe 12 pro version), are flatter across the upper bass to mids... No idea on the current 7 model, but the 20 (and therefore the cheaper-box 19 version) was designed to be used on a (strong) meter bridge and according to a ~2000 or so group test majoring on the NS10, most small two-way monitors seemed to be balanced this way with lifted upper mids, even the then-popular Harbeth-designed and made HHB Circle models...
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Maybe out of topic, but just for fun, we can take a look at a few groups of hifi enthusiasts, whose approachement to hifi is basicaly different.
Hard core audiophiles
They live in their own enchanted world, always listening to sound, never to music, except for the selected audiophile editions.
Their choise of music is determined by the quality of recording. Sound and production always come first, music is just a means to get to the "perfect" sound. This group will never buy an active speakers (vibrations will spoil the sound of the amplifiers!).
But they will give whatever money they have for an audiophile cable, which is expected to improve their life. They do not recognize any authority. Everything is possible with them. They pass jundgment on everything solely on the basis of their limited experience and knowledge. In their presence you have to be careful what you say about hifi, because they can be quite agressive. They are dead serious about hifi.
Music lovers - hifi as a means of listening to music.
A much more cheerful group. Some people simply find great pleasure in dealing with hifi devices, buying them, carrying it around, trying them out, comparing them, changing them, building hifi systems. They are curious and open, not vain. They don't compete, or argue, they love hifi because it brings them joy of music and companionship. Often not too ambitious about their hifi hardware. Willing to spend time and effort to nail price/quality ratio. Some of them settled down with hifi, don't change it, but stll love hifi, follow what's happening, hang out with friends on that basis.
Always making jokes about their hobby.
Hifi as a status symbol.
A sad bunch indeed. They are happiest when someone admires their expensive heavy weight hifi arthilery. And that's the end, because that was the goal. They don't know music, don't know equipment, knows only the price of everything and value of nothing.
Different people have different priorities in hifi, so no need to go "bristle" about it.
Their money, their game.
Let's go back to atc
There are strong opinions on them, good and bad. Lots of guesses, many questions...
I am curious on how many of them have actually heard an atc, and how many people actually have them at home. I suspect very few. I personally know only one other person who has atc speakers.
That may change in the future since atc becoming more and more a sort of fancy brand.
Good for them, that cake is well deserved in my view.
It is a serious task to decide whether or not lay cash for some of the upper market atc offerings and that would not be possible just by looking at the papers, measurements or on the basis of assumptions.
Dedicated, thorough listening to atc speakers, preferably in a space adequate to their size, with the right choice of electronics, is the only way to get to know them.
Nothing new hete, but in the case of atc a mandatory.
Sorry for long post...
DSJR
Master Contributor
Fairly recent exposure to the ATC 40A, 100ASL and 150ASL, showed me I made the right decision all those decades ago, as I can 'slip back' into their presentation with tears of recognition in my eyes, the speakers not getting in the way of *my* musical enjoyment, even with my now depleted hearing and accepting that rather a lot has happened at far lower prices in terms of good speaker design. The Audio First models (passive be damned 
) look very interesting and they're not too far away inland either (in Cambridge area?).
I remember giving up on the never ending HiFi Ladder when I had the 100As - and actually missed out on some used bargains then which are worth a small fortune these days
I now wonder that had I bought 50As instead of the 100As, would I have been able to keep them once married and family-started, first due to smaller size and weight and secondly due to cost reasons?
) look very interesting and they're not too far away inland either (in Cambridge area?).I remember giving up on the never ending HiFi Ladder when I had the 100As - and actually missed out on some used bargains then which are worth a small fortune these days
I now wonder that had I bought 50As instead of the 100As, would I have been able to keep them once married and family-started, first due to smaller size and weight and secondly due to cost reasons?You should have kept the 100A anyway, I don't know what you were thinking.I remember giving up on the never ending HiFi Ladder when I had the 100As - and actually missed out on some used bargains then which are worth a small fortune these days
DSJR
Master Contributor
I was engaged to be married in 1996 and we had to combine two small 2-bed modern houses into one. Absolutely NO room for the deep in profile 100As and as they're so difficult to slide on their stands (she didn't call them 'fridges' for nothing!), it was impossible to house them. Got to say my life changed forever that year and this weekend, looking at albums of 1990s photos at work which need to be thinned out a good deal, it's come back to me just how much it all changed for me that year. Thirty years on and in my 70th year, I'm still trying to adapt to it
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