ATC speakers / Monitors

[LEA-Ebenisterie]

Which is always funny to me, such expensive speakers to do what amounts to the most minimal amount of work that will be done on at track. I used to offer mastering services but I kind of felt like it wasn't a real job and I wasn't really doing anything, certainly nothing that would warrant what most people are asking for price wise. I found far more value and helping my clients understand that they don't need anyone for this task, gave them step by step details on the tools I use and how to use them, and the mental and subjective nature of the work. I now only work with projects that I can mix at the stem level. No interest at all in cleaning up a stereo mix.

Mastering world really strikes me as a way to get maximum profit with the least amount of effort that capitalizes on musicians insecurity, so ATC speakers should really fit right in there.

Mastering historically relied on truely adapting the track and prepare it for lathe engraving to end up on a Vinyl, via 1/2" Inches after bouncing them from 2" Tapes, and originally, it was much more work than nowadays and I kind of get/agree on what you say, about doing everything right at the end of the mix, but sometimes a new/fresh pair of ears and, if asked to the right person, a, generally more acoustically treated room and a better set of monitors, can help in details, and sometimes details make a difference.

I was thinking also of the large multi-driver monitors from many international makers here, not just ATC... Mastering rooms tend I believe, to use something a little smaller, such as B&W N802 and one mastering chap I know of, used ATC 100As when based in his home studio in Skye (the remoteness did no harm as files were sent to him for mastering - I believe he's emigrated east now and not sure if he's working as he's a few years older than I).

Well, from what I've understood in modern mastering use, is that, as people tend to have more home studios for recording/producing purposes, Mastering focuses on getting low and extreme low end right, which implies extreme room treatment.

 

[dfuller]

Which is always funny to me, such expensive speakers to do what amounts to the most minimal amount of work that will be done on at track. I used to offer mastering services but I kind of felt like it wasn't a real job and I wasn't really doing anything, certainly nothing that would warrant what most people are asking for price wise. I found far more value and helping my clients understand that they don't need anyone for this task, gave them step by step details on the tools I use and how to use them, and the mental and subjective nature of the work. I now only work with projects that I can mix at the stem level. No interest at all in cleaning up a stereo mix.

Mastering world really strikes me as a way to get maximum profit with the least amount of effort that capitalizes on musicians insecurity, so ATC speakers should really fit right in there.

Mastering is my main gig outside of my day job and I can tell you for a fact that it's not "the most minimal amount of work", it's more "the final step to catch errors before it goes out the door". Yeah, it's the least processing, but that's because adding 0.5dB of high shelf is the same as adding 0.5dB of high shelf to every track in the mix.

A lot of the job is QC and very slight tweaks (talking on the order of <0.5dB EQ moves) and good speakers and room are 100% very important there.

And, on the whole, ATCs are on the better end of the studio speaker spectrum. I've said it before and I'll say it again, most of the crap ATC gets is better pushed towards PMC and Quested and Ocean Way and Augspurger etc etc.

 

[Ktacos]

Mastering is my main gig outside of my day job and I can tell you for a fact that it's not "the most minimal amount of work", it's more "the final step to catch errors before it goes out the door". Yeah, it's the least processing, but that's because adding 0.5dB of high shelf is the same as adding 0.5dB of high shelf to every track in the mix.

It's not the most minimal amount of work, and your argument proceeds to describe an incredibly minimal amount of work? Ok. Idk, charging money for slapping a few EQ's and compression on, even if it's tastefully done and a product of developing taste over the years makes me feel dirty, so I don't do it. There also tends to be pretty much no challenge to it so I find it really boring.

Been there, done that. Mastering doesn't need to exist outside of vinyl. Judging by how things are going, it's largely dwindling away. I'm happy to see a world where more people are able to get the results they want on their own.

 

[LEA-Ebenisterie]

It's not the most minimal amount of work, and your argument proceeds to describe an incredibly minimal amount of work? Ok. Idk, charging money for slapping a few EQ's and compression on, even if it's tastefully done and a product of developing taste over the years makes me feel dirty, so I don't do it. There also tends to be pretty much no challenge to it so I find it really boring.

Been there, done that. Mastering doesn't need to exist outside of vinyl. Judging by how things are going, it's largely dwindling away. I'm happy to see a world where more people are able to get the results they want on their own.

Kinda agree and kinda not, I invite you to read my comment on the top of the page concerning having an other pair of ears to have a more objective point of view + the fact most of Home Studios don't have the ability to hear low end properly.

 

[goat76]

I think of mastering as "mixing" the complete album to make the it sound more coherent as a whole. As @LEA-Ebenisterie says, having another pair of fresh ears to judge the overall balance, both on the individual songs and the overall balance of an album, can sometimes be needed. The person who mixed the songs has dived deep into solving many details, making all those individual tracks go together and blend into the mix, but may have lost the sense of the overall balance, which a fresh set of ears most likely can hear just by listening to the track for the first time.

I record and mix my own music in my free time, and I have learned that my hearing will pretty fast acclimate itself to whatever the overall tonal balance happens to be in a mix. I therefore regularly go back to listening to my reference tracks, which help my hearing be recalibrated to a well-known reference tonal balance. The best thing is, of course, trying to rebalance things better in the actual mix on an individual track-to-track basis, but it can still be somewhat hard to "back out and see the full picture" after having focused so much on the finer details. But even when most things in the mix sound pretty well-balanced, I'm sure a fresh pair of ears could come in handy, making some final touches to both the overall sound of the individual songs, but also balancing the tracks on the full album.

 

[Gregg Hermetech]

I've been mastering since 2009, full time/sole income since 2011. I've been using active ATCs since then too. I love how they sound, I love my job, and clients keep coming back, so...

 

[Ktacos]

Kinda agree and kinda not, I invite you to read my comment on the top of the page concerning having an other pair of ears to have a more objective point of view + the fact most of Home Studios don't have the ability to hear low end properly.

I do have a response for clients on the ear thing, they have just as much ability to hear what I do, they just need to approach the work in different mental states which isn't hard to do. There are different scenarios one can place themselves in to have a more active or passive listening experience. Playing a track in the car while driving can be a pretty useful one, it practically forces a more passive listening environment since you have to focus on driving and it's more akin to how one would usually listen to other music. I try to note that time, physical activity, sleep, and other things can be utilized to get a different perspective on a mix even when listening on the same setup in the same room. Music in the morning sounds different than music at night even.

I feel on the whole I've just become very bored with traditions in the audio world and my personality is one that see's convention and tradition as things to destroy to bring upon something new.

 

[MarcoPoulos]

Yes. But certainly not mine

You probably have ear loss issue

 

[MarcoPoulos]

I must ask
ATC monitors are considered to be one of the best if not the best monitors on the planet, it's also a consensus on Gearslutz
But around here they're not very popular
I must understand why

Most of haters never had a pair nor can afford one. Many times they never heard them at all and on top they do not listen to music anymore, they listen the equipment to try to have a judgement. As a matter of taste I love PSI and ATC and PMC but there is many other monitors that are amazing and you can work the jell out of them. I work with a pair of AMEY Monitor 2 (french confidential brand making these amazing monitors) 10% of the time while the 90 other % I use a pair of JBL 4412 to produce, mix and master. The results are always great. What counts is the final result and if you have pleasure to work with your tools.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Many times they never heard them at all and on top they do not listen to music anymore, they listen the equipment to try to have a judgement.

You would do well to read many threads here at ASR before you say something like that. For one, you don't know the people here. You have no idea what people here have heard of or not heard of. Secondly, to say that members here don't listen to music and that they only listen to equipment is a derogatory and insulting stereotype. Have you scanned these threads here at ASR?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-are-we-listening-to-right-now.40/ (27,742 posts over 1,388 pages)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/artists-you-have-discovered-lately.29/ (986 posts over 50 pages)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tly-or-that-you-love.90/page-164#post-2512159 (3,276 posts over 164 pages)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ecently-some-you-love.89/page-48#post-2511088 (948 posts over 48 pages)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ectronica-dance-techno-et-cetera.220/page-103 (2,051 posts over 103 pages)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...usic-no-pony-tails-or-choral-crap.197/page-69 1,373 posts over 69 pages)


And there are more.

 

[MarcoPoulos]

I am talking about most haters not all people here.

 

[Jim Taylor]

I am talking about most haters not all people here.

As I said, you don't know the people here. It would be best to refrain from the use of the word "hater". Some members here are industry professionals. Some members here are teachers and professors. Not all of them agree on certain issues, but that doesn't make them "haters".

If you disagree with a certain post, it's best to use logic and data as the foundation of your disagreement. This is, after all, Audio SCIENCE Review. Simply making an offhand remark about someone's hearing accomplishes nothing.

Stick around and get a feel for the members here, because they can provide a great deal of information.

And speaking of information, you might enjoy this collection of videos that Amir has made. These videos contain much of the information that members here cite when they critique both speakers and electronics.

Master List of Instructional Teaching Video presentations (How to read and interpret/understand all the Graphs and Charts!

Collection of Amir’s instructional Videos for reference, refresher and new members: (“Behind the Curtain @ ASR University”) Welcome New and returning Members of ASR. Our Host Amir has put together a collection of comprehensive instructional videos that might help new and returning Members...

www.audiosciencereview.com

p.s. - Much of the criticism of ATC revolves around their price/performance ratio. Unlike some other audio sites, that is considered a valid criticism here at ASR.

 

[MarcoPoulos]

As I said, you don't know the people here. It would be best to refrain from the use of the word "hater". Some members here are industry professionals. Some members here are teachers and professors. Not all of them agree on certain issues, but that doesn't make them "haters".

If you disagree with a certain post, it's best to use logic and data as the foundation of your disagreement. This is, after all, Audio SCIENCE Review. Simply making an offhand remark about someone's hearing accomplishes nothing.

Stick around and get a feel for the members here, because they can provide a great deal of information.

And speaking of information, you might enjoy this collection of videos that Amir has made. These videos contain much of the information that members here cite when they critique both speakers and electronics.

Master List of Instructional Teaching Video presentations (How to read and interpret/understand all the Graphs and Charts!

Collection of Amir’s instructional Videos for reference, refresher and new members: (“Behind the Curtain @ ASR University”) Welcome New and returning Members of ASR. Our Host Amir has put together a collection of comprehensive instructional videos that might help new and returning Members...

www.audiosciencereview.com

p.s. - Much of the criticism of ATC revolves around their price/performance ratio. Unlike some other audio sites, that is considered a valid criticism here at ASR.

Thank you for reminding me basic politeness. I am sorry if you or anybody else felt offended. The is not only measurments in Music and it would be boring. So everybody is ok with ATC or not, no problem. Best Regards

 

[RexrothPigeon]

The is not only measurments in Music and it would be boring

The science here is focused on the technology used to reproduce music (amps, DACs, transducers, etc.). That technology is the product of science and its accuracy can be measured with precision that vastly exceeds the limits of human hearing. Many have come here to claim that there are audible but immeasurable aspects of that process, but none have withstood scientific scrutiny so far as I am aware.

 

[Avp1]

p.s. - Much of the criticism of ATC revolves around their price/performance ratio. Unlike some other audio sites, that is considered a valid criticism here at ASR.

ATC speakers are certainly not cheap, but which electromechanical devices made in UK are? As to the performance - what ATC was able to achieve without use of digital pre-distortion utilized by some popular here brands is remarkable.

 

[LEA-Ebenisterie]

ATC speakers are certainly not cheap, but which electromechanical devices made in UK are? As to the performance - what ATC was able to achieve without use of digital pre-distortion utilized by some popular here brands is remarkable.

Agreed,

Cheaper speakers/cabinetry/assembly are in general not Made in USA, nor any EU top 5, as labour is expensive. I sell 1 Hour of work for 60€ VAT Excluded to give you an example.

Understand to make a speaker, if you don't have atomatic process with expensive machinery ( Considering that professionnal Panel saws, Spindle Moulders, Planers/Thicknessing machines, Thickness Sanding Machines are already not cheap, nor cheap to maintain, but this can get way more complicated/automatized) that gives you ability to make steps by batches, we can't even keep up the pricing of some companies.

If I were to make JUST cabinetry (without speakers, wiring, crossover parts/hypex module etc...) for a Troels Gravesen Design, column, like PuriFi 6661 for example, this would easily cost at least 2000€ just for the pair (low estimation), including Birch Plywood, can vary depending of which veneer and finish you would want.

Pricing question, if not exagerrated, is more of an ethical question rather than something else. You understand why DIY is always cheaper.

 

[Purité Audio]

ATC speakers are certainly not cheap, but which electromechanical devices made in UK are? As to the performance - what ATC was able to achieve without use of digital pre-distortion utilized by some popular here brands is remarkable.

Remarkable in 1974 perhaps and of course the company resolutely fails to provide any measurements of their designs , ‘digital pre-distortion’?
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

New ATC for Bristol show, I say ‘new’ but … £50k you get a book with it.

 

[thewas]

New ATC for Bristol show, I say ‘new’ but … £50k you get a book with it.View attachment 512107

At least I find it beautiful and am sure like all 3-way ATC it will sound and measure well (even though not SOTA anymore), will refrain though on commenting on its price.

 

[LEA-Ebenisterie]

New ATC for Bristol show, I say ‘new’ but … £50k you get a book with it.View attachment 512107

They look great indeed, do you know what's the difference with SCM50 ? Same driver for the Low End ? I assume they're 50L as well considering the name.