KH150 cannot play loud. Distortion jumps up after 95dB SPL. They key for ATC is capability to play loud with low distortion.
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ATC speakers / Monitors
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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KH150 cannot play loud. Distortion jumps up after 95dB SPL. They key for ATC is capability to play loud with low distortion.
Can you tell me which store that was that had both active Neumann studio monitors like the KH150, and passive HiFi speakers like ATC SCM40s?
That is a very unusual combination of gear, as most audio stores I've seen normally focus on either HiFi-type speakers or studio monitors.
It is not. When listening at 80dB average peaks can routinely reach 100dB.
TBH, the KH150 plays as loud and even louder than any speaker of its size should be able to play at. On the other hand, I do vaguely recall the ATC SCM25A Pro not being able to play as loud as it should and that it was fixed in the Mk2 version.
Obviously, the big ATCs are very capable.
Obviously, the big ATCs are very capable.
95db in room is loud as hell, good luck convincing anyone without hearing damage that it isn't.
At 1 meter.
Also - 96dB/1m is as loud as the 150 will go. If you need more than that, buy bigger speakers.
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This is why KH150 is a NEAR field monitor
At 2, or even 3 meters. I guess I'm the only one without hearing damage here? Ok then.
Legit question, is there a reason this thread was re-opened? Literally no new info was added and all discussions devolved back to the same stuff. I mean really what is the point of this thread.
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Local pro audio store in Sydney. They were trialling ATC and asked some regulars to give opinions. In the end they decided not to carry ATC....
They still sell PMC, Focal, Adam, Presonus, Genelec, Eve audio, Neuman, Dynaudio etc
Edit: just checked - the ATC we listened to was active
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Are there distortion measurements for SCM40 over 95dB?
I get your point - the KH150 are nearfield monitors, but still work really well 2-3m.
KH310 are still cheaper. If you factor in amp and dac - the KH420 comes into play at SCM40 price point.
No, they literally ran into their limiters in the low end around 95dB. They're not designed to get super loud, nor should they be - 6.5" tiny boxes with lots of low end extension pretty much definitionally can't get super loud.
Anyway, ATC has a new couple of speakers out for on/in wall mounting, the SSM12i and 25i. I'm not sure what the difference between SCM and SSM is... The 25i is different in terms of the woofer from the scm25A and scm40.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
What was the distance from the mid-dome to the microphone? (Partly asking to be able to compare to some measurements of my own, which from memory looked a bit less flat at 0°.)
95dB average at the listening position is certainly loud, but sounds perfectly fine on a speaker that can handle it in a room that's not overly reflective.
You don't have to have hearing damage to find it enjoyable, it's fine to be in the room, and you don't get any hearing damage either as long as you don't listen too long.
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I value my and other peoples hearing.
When 95dB is recommended for no more than 1hr 15mins per week we have to be cautious about listening levels. The scary thing these days is modern speakers and headphones have such low distortion that you can listen a lot louder before it starts irritating/hurting.
Deafness and hearing loss: Safe listening
I value my and other peoples hearing.
When 95dB is recommended for no more than 1hr 15mins per week we have to be cautious about listening levels. The scary thing these days is modern speakers and headphones have such low distortion that you can listen a lot louder before it starts irritating/hurting.
Deafness and hearing loss: Safe listening
www.who.int
I'm not suggesting that you listen to this level for hours on end, but there's a difference between "don't listen for more than an hour" and "I don't even want to be in the room if you play that loud". A little nuance goes a long way.
And given the dynamic content of a lot of music, there is certainly a place for speakers who can play significantly louder than 95dB without compression. Room size and listening distance of course plays a role too.
The measurements were taken 1 meter from the speaker, at the height of the mid-dome driver. There is no need to measure the ATC speakers at any longer distance than that if the intention of the measurement is a gated result, as the mid-dome and the tweeter drivers will sum correctly at 1 meter distance anyway. And you don't have to worry about whether the bass driver will sum correctly with the other drivers, as the crossover frequency is as low as 380Hz for all three-way ATC speakers and will therefore most likely end up outside/below the resolution of the gated window.
If you have a larger room than mine, you could make your measurement at a longer distance. The most optimal would be to make the measurements in a very large room or outdoors.
If you are only going to make one single gated measurement and not a 0 to 90-degree measurement for a gated result, I suggest that you raise the speaker so that the mid-dome driver is at a height equal to the distance between the floor and the ceiling, and make sure the loudspeaker is placed as far away as possible from the walls and furnitures, and the same goes for the microphone.
You could, of course, measure the speakers' on-axis response at 0° if you want, but if you are doing it for your own sake and just want to know what the gated measurement looks like for the direct sound reaching your ears at the main listening position, you should take the toe-in angle of your speakers into the concideration and measure the speaker at that degree. But with that said, it's probably more interesting for all of us if you could share your gated measurement done at 0°, so that we could compare it to my on-axis measurement.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Not quite true, since the on-axis response will vary with distance due to the different path-lengths for mid and tweeter to the microphone. I was making gated measurements at the distance of my listening position as this is where I personally care about but it's something I need to find time to get back to doing properly. I had a more pronounced dip in the tweeter-mid crossover region which I want to double-check, and test for both speakers. From my initial test it was pronounced enough I was considering experimenting with some EQ to reduce this.
I have the speakers toed in to point directly at the MLP by the way. Do you not?
Edit: I should add I was making measurements at the mid-driver height - I appreciate height will affect the crossover region significantly. I actually investigated by how much. My listening position is higher than the mid-driver when normally set up, so I have now tilted the speakers back so that the MLP is on the mid-axis.
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At 1 meter, the mid-dome and the tweeter drivers do sum correctly, I did compared it to other measurements I’ve done at a further distance.
Do you mean you moved out the speakers from the walls, and also made room for microphone to not have any reflective surfaces close by, but kept the measurement at an equal distance as your actual listening distance? If so, must have a way larger room than I have.
I have them so that the speakers on-axis cross about 20-25 centimeters behind me at the listening position. I think that ends up around 5 degrees from the on-axis for the direct sound.
I think we talked about this earlier in the thread. I also have my speakers tilted backward enough so that the mid-dome points to the ears at the listening position.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I have previously made measurements outside but the specific measurements I referred to were made making use of various acoustic absorbers to remove early reflections, with gating to exclude later ones. It certainly wasn't perfect which is why I want to revisit it.
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