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ATC speakers / Monitors

richard12511

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From what I see here so far ATC measures objectively not great.
There has been no evidence to the contrary.
Heresy (someone said) does not change that.
This is where I am, pretty much. The objective evidence we have so far suggests that ATC is decent, but nowhere near Genelec/Neumann. Individual subjective impressions are meaningless, given the biases of the human brain. But, a great measurement of one of their more modern active speakers could change my mind. Would love to see a SCM150 measured!

If there are any owners out there, I'd be willing to chip in for shipping.
 

Inner Space

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The objective evidence we have so far suggests that ATC is decent, but nowhere near Genelec/Neumann.
This is the pivotal sentence in the debate. All three speakers can be accurately described by measurement. Their measurements can be compared against a standard. One will be the closest match, and the other two will be less close.

But why compare a studio monitor against a standard derived from normal listeners using mass market equipment in normal living rooms in normal houses? Meeting one set of demands doesn't mean you meet every set of demands.

My own hopelessly unscientific thought experiment goes like this: you have a problem in the mix. You don't really know what it is. But it's very important to fix it. Tension is high. Fifty people are going to do better or worse in life depending on how well this record sells. Not least you. Your rep is on the line.

So, question: out of every mixer who has ever been in that spot, which is all of them, what would be the net migration? Would more guys who started the mix on ATCs move to Genelecs or Neumanns, or would more who started with Genelecs or Neumanns move to ATCs?

Based on doing it and seeing it done, I would say the latter. And it's not just a question of a 3dB boost. Anyone could do that, and eat into ATC's market. Certainly ATC's prices give them plenty of room.

That mid dome is a real thing. And I say that as a person who avoided ATCs wherever possible, partly because of flaws elsewhere, and partly because I didn't like the guy who owned the company. He gave me huge negative bias. But if it was 4am and I had a problem, I'd use his damn mid dome.
 

Elkios

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This is where I am, pretty much. The objective evidence we have so far suggests that ATC is decent, but nowhere near Genelec/Neumann. Individual subjective impressions are meaningless, given the biases of the human brain. But, a great measurement of one of their more modern active speakers could change my mind. Would love to see a SCM150 measured!

If there are any owners out there, I'd be willing to chip in for shipping.
What are the biases of a human brain that is not biased by brand , appearance, measurements. Say the complete opposite to us here . One that play's a lot of musical instruments and listens to live unamplified up close and at distance and they say a particular speaker sounds more real ? Some people do not care what a speaker looks like. Same as I don't care about cars but I know I can be shocked by a high spec small car after a drive just friends cars . Most people are aware that small speakers can sound big these days heck all my girlfriends in the past have and really don't care about my speakers but some who play instruments and sing have commented about attributes of my speakers that are better one to the other and funnily they shared a lot of the same opinion as myself when I asked what they thought so no manipulation or suggestion to help them . So maybe there are things we don't fully understand. I don't want to go down the Genelec vs ATC path because I don't need to but I do like both a lot. But in saying that I have just moved my 8341s for either bigger Gen or ExMachina. I'm to up in the crypto universe with current bullrun. Buy crypto guy's and buy your dream speakers .
 

Purité Audio

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Stating the very obvious but to garner a really valid opinion you need to hear two speakers in the same room at the same time, that’s what we offer here, even that is still far from a perfect solution.
Keith
 

Elkios

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Stating the very obvious but to garner a really valid opinion you need to hear two speakers in the same room at the same time, that’s what we offer here, even that is still far from a perfect solution.
Keith
Are you planning to trial Ex Machina Keith ?
 

Purité Audio

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They don’t appear to be anything special, in fact it looks more look multiple ‘influencer‘ guerrilla hype.
Keith
 
OP
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Pearljam5000

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Metallica with ATC
Screenshot_20211110-154609.jpg
Screenshot_20211110-154849.jpg
 

dfuller

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Looking at the data, I think it's pretty obvious why ATC has such great mid clarity. The speaker has relatively good (not great) directivity, and the midrange is turned up 2-3dB over the rest of the spectrum. For that reason, the midrange stands out more than it does on other (more neutral speakers). You could get the same mid clarity by turning the KH310 mid dome up by 2-3dB.
I can confirm, doing this on the KH310 made dialing midrange focused stuff in much easier. Q 0.5 bell at 2khz, +1dB.

As for Metallica - they haven't had a good sounding record since the mid 90s. I wonder what speakers Randy Staub was using at the time...
 

TimVG

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Brad Lunde (Atc dealer) and the measure

So many words.
I've seen good to great correlation between Klippel NFS measurements, 'normal' anechoic measurments, and even quasi-anechoic measurements with splicing by (capable) hobbyists. These are just words of people who want to discredit third party measurements, without actually providing anything themselves.
 

dominikz

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So many words.
I've seen good to great correlation between Klippel NFS measurements, 'normal' anechoic measurments, and even quasi-anechoic measurements with splicing by (capable) hobbyists. These are just words of people who want to discredit third party measurements, without actually providing anything themselves.
This x1000. Personally I was completely surprised at the level of consistency and correlation between the various measurement methods of the same loudspeaker model when I started my experiments with acoustic measurements. The agreement between sources of well executed measurements, regardless of method, is most often fantastic - especially considering that usually different units of the same model are measured.

Just look at the quasi-anechoic loudspeaker measurements from @napilopez (and others) and how incredibly well they qualitatively follow NFS results from @hardisj and @amirm. Sure, with the quasi-anechoic/spliced method there's much less resolution in the very important mid frequencies, as well as some ambiguity in the low frequencies vs NFS or a calibrated anechoic chamber - but still a lot can be said about a loudspeaker from such data.

Of course, some rigour with regard to methodology and tools is required to get valid results - but IMHO people intuitively tend to greatly underestimate the precision that can be achieved even with pretty simple (and cheap) measurement methods.
 
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