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ATC speakers / Monitors

Yes but why are you looking at it in a negative way?
If they make the products cheaper more people could enjoy them and afford them
Most of the products today are already made in China
Would you not buy an IPhone because it's made in China?
Jobs are lost everywhere
It's a fact of life
Would you not buy a company's product because they use AI and fired thousands of people because they don't need them anymore?
It's not black and white, like anything in life
Short sighted business plans are not sustainable especially for innovative, technology driven companies like Genelec. These companies rely on highly skilled workers and the more they invest in people, the more they can grow through innovation. You can’t expect innovative ideas from people who don’t feel secure in their workplace. When employees are stuck in survival mode everyone from engineers to sales and management tends to focus only on short term gains rather than building lasting value. Greedy business practices on the other hand, undermine long term success and can cause such companies to fall apart quickly. Greedy business practices may offer short term gains for service providers or middleman companies but even in those cases the model is rarely sustainable in the long run.
 
Yes but why are you looking at it in a negative way?
If they make the products cheaper more people could enjoy them and afford them
It would be very hard to explain your idea in a positive way to the engineering and manufacturing teams who develop and manufacture a product.

I also doubt outsourcing as you describe it leads to universally cheap products. Are iPhones cheap? There are Genelec models that are cheaper for a pair and will outlast an iPhone.
 
No need for MIC manufactured ATC, I can’t wait for AsciLab to better SCM50-A performance for far less money. Waiting in anticipation of their 3-way model debut, and saving up moolah in the meantime..
 
It would be very hard to explain your idea in a positive way to the engineering and manufacturing teams who develop and manufacture a product.

I also doubt outsourcing as you describe it leads to universally cheap products. Are iPhones cheap? There are Genelec models that are cheaper for a pair and will outlast an iPhone.
There's a language barrier so it's hard for me to explain exactly what I mean
But I gave up already
 
...This is not thought through, by moving companies and production to low salary places more people will have less money to spend.
No. David Ricardo explained all of this in "On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation" published in 1817. By specializing and taking advantage of comparative advantages, the "pie" is bigger, i.e., more people will have more money to spend.

While Bangladesh makes clothes, and Vietnam makes sneakers(i.e., they are abundant in un-skilled labor), the US has a comparative advantage in R&D, engineering, genetic research, Artificial Intelligence, financial services, etc. (i.e., the US is abundant in skilled labor and capital). Thus, we end up with things like the iPhone (designed in the US and made in China), SB Acoustics drivers (designed in Denmark, manufactured in Indonesia,) etc. The fastest way to having less money to spend would be to have more people in the US making sneakers or speakers.
 
No need for MIC manufactured ATC, I can’t wait for AsciLab to better SCM50-A performance for far less money. Waiting in anticipation of their 3-way model debut, and saving up moolah in the meantime..

Same, ATC is just old tech at this point. The whole mid dome thing kinda ceases to have value when a company can make a two way with basically no lobing and better dispersion for a fraction of the cost.
 
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All Western countries have too high salaries and large state structures/salary costs, between which more and more government officials are nesting who have constantly higher incomes every year. When this is not under control at all, and the dollar should be halved in value, the advantage brought by the petrodollar would be lost, i.e. free money from abroad in the form of oil revenues from other countries. You Americans waste far more than you earn money.

In a way, you are burning all the money you have from your children with fire, and you are going into debt for it, so that you can keep every single luxury level at this level or even better tomorrow.

Your entire lifestyle has long since gone beyond healthy limits. But the realization is only slowly coming to you when other countries are doing better in durable goods, everyday consumer goods. I hope you don't go crazy against other countries when the problems are within your own system. The iPhone will no longer come to America to make high-end phones, it will rather merge with other brands in the world over a longer period of time.
 
Things must be told with honesty of heart so that the competitive settings come out more clearly. so that the different causes and different factors of competition for superiority and quality can be separated, and so that people do not constantly walk around with their eyes closed and their ears in the fog, following the advertising speeches of market men.

It is always good to set up hard comparison tests and try different limits and find out if there is any truth in the advertising claims.

Speeches are speeches and actions are actions.
So did you setup such a test?
 
Chrise36

I don't do any tests except by listening to other people's audio sets, like many others. Isn't it obvious that there is already information about the size of many speakers and their sound pressure levels, and the relationship between bass depth and bass power, and the general sound rhythm distribution depth image is already comparable when you know the characteristics of these things in active speakers, so for me it is already a sign that the ATC speakers are already antiques by their own standards, that is, products that have already outlived their time when listened to from their own perspectives.

They are one-dimensional speakers. where the sound is not balanced. Of course, since we are on this site, someone could always do practical tests if there is a chance. Let the fire and gunpowder burn properly with a hot flame!

I have some solid sound equipment in my room and I would really like someone else to actually test the master class Genelec speakers and with extreme consumption behavior, and the comparison would be with the same class of ATC speakers made in Britain side by side. But because I am super super super much much much longer than you already aware that this does not really happen, because the arrogance and courage of too many people do not bear the fruit of genuine interest in taking on the challenge in reality in a super test of active speakers in heavyweight equipment. I know because in Finland people have the same idiotic logic (high end arrogance sitting in a super closed world of thought believing in its endless appearance and beauty value enchantments) as in your country, where you are.

I am aware that this speaker brand burns self-esteem with a hot feeling. I myself have a small room and no equipment for any measurement. I just listen to the results with my ears. The idea would be result or out!

The tests should be conducted by listening to music of various types and styles and checking whether the melody and rhythm, as well as the overall feeling of the sound, are correct and balanced, and whether the volume remains under control even with louder symphonic music playing.
 
Same, ATC is just old tech at this point. The whole mid dome thing kinda ceases to have value when a company can make a two way with basically no lobing and better dispersion for a fraction of the cost.
Chrise36

I don't do any tests except by listening to other people's audio sets, like many others. Isn't it obvious that there is already information about the size of many speakers and their sound pressure levels, and the relationship between bass depth and bass power, and the general sound rhythm distribution depth image is already comparable when you know the characteristics of these things in active speakers, so for me it is already a sign that the ATC speakers are already antiques by their own standards, that is, products that have already outlived their time when listened to from their own perspectives.

They are one-dimensional speakers. where the sound is not balanced. Of course, since we are on this site, someone could always do practical tests if there is a chance. Let the fire and gunpowder burn properly with a hot flame!

I have some solid sound equipment in my room and I would really like someone else to actually test the master class Genelec speakers and with extreme consumption behavior, and the comparison would be with the same class of ATC speakers made in Britain side by side. But because I am super super super much much much longer than you already aware that this does not really happen, because the arrogance and courage of too many people do not bear the fruit of genuine interest in taking on the challenge in reality in a super test of active speakers in heavyweight equipment. I know because in Finland people have the same idiotic logic (high end arrogance sitting in a super closed world of thought believing in its endless appearance and beauty value enchantments) as in your country, where you are.

I am aware that this speaker brand burns self-esteem with a hot feeling. I myself have a small room and no equipment for any measurement. I just listen to the results with my ears. The idea would be result or out!

The tests should be conducted by listening to music of various types and styles and checking whether the melody and rhythm, as well as the overall feeling of the sound, are correct and balanced, and whether the volume remains under control even with louder symphonic music playing.
Conclusion is you come here preaching about the superiority of other designs vs ATC without having conducted any proper A-B comparison.
 
C hrise36

Sometimes in the time of human life in which we live there are moments and it is necessary to wake people from a deep sleep. You are living in a serious deep sleep, as far as my claims are concerned. It is enough for me to say things directly, as it is so.
 
No. David Ricardo explained all of this in "On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation" published in 1817. By specializing and taking advantage of comparative advantages, the "pie" is bigger, i.e., more people will have more money to spend.

While Bangladesh makes clothes, and Vietnam makes sneakers(i.e., they are abundant in un-skilled labor), the US has a comparative advantage in R&D, engineering, genetic research, Artificial Intelligence, financial services, etc. (i.e., the US is abundant in skilled labor and capital). Thus, we end up with things like the iPhone (designed in the US and made in China), SB Acoustics drivers (designed in Denmark, manufactured in Indonesia,) etc. The fastest way to having less money to spend would be to have more people in the US making sneakers or speakers.
While David Ricardo’s theory of comparative advantage offers a valuable lens for understanding international trade, it rests on assumptions that often fail to capture the complexities of today’s global economy. The notion that offshoring production inevitably leads to a bigger "pie" for everyone is an oversimplification that overlooks critical economic and social consequences.
In theory, global specialization increases efficiency. But in practice, moving jobs to low-wage countries frequently displaces workers in higher-wage economies, particularly in manufacturing and other middle-income sectors. This job displacement doesn't automatically translate into new opportunities in high-skilled fields like R&D or finance, especially for workers without advanced education or geographic mobility. Instead, many are pushed into low-paying service jobs or permanent unemployment, contributing to rising inequality, economic insecurity, and social discontent.
Ricardo also assumed that capital would remain within national borders, but in the modern global economy, capital flows wherever profits are highest—often to places with the lowest wages and weakest regulations. This dynamic undermines local industries and exacerbates inequality, both within and between countries. At the same time, it increases dependence on complex, fragile supply chains that are easily disrupted, as starkly demonstrated during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Furthermore, the environmental and ethical costs of offshoring are often ignored. Production in low-wage countries may rely on lax labor standards, exploitative practices, or environmentally damaging methods that would be unacceptable in richer nations. These externalities fall outside the neat logic of comparative advantage but have profound consequences for global sustainability and human rights.
The idea that innovation and design remain in high-wage countries while low-wage countries handle manufacturing, as illustrated with the iPhone or speaker components, is also misleading. While it's true that some value stays with designers and R&D teams, a growing share of wealth generated in this model accrues to capital owners rather than workers. As a result, economic growth doesn’t necessarily translate into shared prosperity unless accompanied by robust redistributive policies—something increasingly absent in many developed nations.
Recent global trends further challenge the narrative. The resurgence of industrial policy, strategic reshoring efforts, and supply chain localization in countries like the U.S. and across Europe indicate a recognition that national resilience, employment stability, and sovereignty cannot be sacrificed for theoretical efficiency gains.
Ultimately, Ricardo’s model should be seen as a useful but limited tool, not an infallible law. Blind adherence to it ignores the real-world fallout of global labor arbitrage and masks the growing imbalances it produces. A more nuanced, context-sensitive approach to trade and production is needed—one that values not just efficiency, but equity, sustainability, and long-term social cohesion.
 
thewas

As long as ordinary working people do not receive shares in their own workplace alongside their salary naturally, then... as long as poverty only increases in Western countries.Self-evident logic. Markets that are also traded on the stock exchange where shares, cryptos and other securities are comparable to the added value of Pokemon cards, which are traded at a price.

But if an employee can only get these by buying them on their own initiative, then ask yourself honestly how it can be when many companies then give these securities for free to their own board members and other members of the upper management but not to employees. So they enrich each other.In other words, you are considered an employee in a state of eternal slavery in a way that you do not even realize very well internally. Money is not just dollar-denominated cash at all. So there is other hidden money that is not often seen in public.
 
C hrise36

Sometimes in the time of human life in which we live there are moments and it is necessary to wake people from a deep sleep. You are living in a serious deep sleep, as far as my claims are concerned. It is enough for me to say things directly, as it is so.
I have many reasons to believe it is the opposite
 
C hrise36

Your faith is weak. And your faith bears no fruit when tested against the real world. The real world is very cold but it often keeps reason in check for many.

You are just living in your own bubble-like economy now.
 
Fanatics are interesting creatures. Behrelec 37 is obviously a hardcore Genelec fan, and possibly a religious preacher of the Genelec church on a mission to give faith to the weak. We should raise our arms to the gods of Finland! ;)
 
The irony.
Keith
 
True I am a fanboy of fine engineering corroborated with actual measurement, not just anecdote.
Keith
 
No need for MIC manufactured ATC, I can’t wait for AsciLab to better SCM50-A performance for far less money. Waiting in anticipation of their 3-way model debut, and saving up moolah in the meantime..
It's suggested that the KH420 may well do that easily for 2/3 the price...

ATC had a very lean time in the early noughties as big studios were closing and removing the need for soffit mounted twin 15" models such as the 300A. Whatever some of you Klippel-Freaks think today, the current active range sit head and shoulders over a huge amount of domestic competition. In the UK lower high end domestic scene, it's top passive Dynaudios or maybe Focal (not the professional models), or the rather awful active Kudos models designed by ear alone, so the story goes, the likes of PMC only just offering active packs to 'upgrade' their slim towers (Harbeth are just squeezing into this market in terms of price).

The answer for ATC was to accept maybe less sales but to price their products more profitably and it seems to be working, the extra sales of fancy veneers and so on being a sales boost for them and others. They've re-acquired the original factory and seem to have added a huge new building which somebody suggested makes their cabinets or maybe stores them? The emphasis of 'active first and foremost' also seems diluted to me, especially since Billy's gone and it's a shame they currently don't seem interested in dsp to fine tune what they have further (mind you, the domestic side is only just cottoning on to the potential of active without piles of ever more expensive add-on boxes as Linn and Naim promote...

 
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