ATC speakers / Monitors

[dfuller]

My experience is other than the SCM19/20, they're all more or less the same qualities.

Also - I emailed ATC a while back about the S+R review of the SCM25a, and they finally got back to me - and said that is not accurate to reality, and the measurement from Resolution is closer.

So, what can we take away from this?

1. They definitely do not aim for low linear bass response. These are F3 at about 50hz, roughly what I'd expect from a ported passive speaker of similar volume and driver size.

2. They are certainly "flat enough" that I would not consider them a bad choice in and of themselves.

3. The mk1 tweeter was atrocious.

 

[goat76]

My experience is other than the SCM19/20, they're all more or less the same qualities.

Also - I emailed ATC a while back about the S+R review of the SCM25a, and they finally got back to me - and said that is not accurate to reality, and the measurement from Resolution is closer.

View attachment 428304


So, what can we take away from this?

1. They definitely do not aim for low linear bass response. These are F3 at about 50hz, roughly what I'd expect from a ported passive speaker of similar volume and driver size.

2. They are certainly "flat enough" that I would not consider them a bad choice in and of themselves.

3. The mk1 tweeter was atrocious.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it is important that the measurements are done at the height of the acoustic axis. For ATC 2-way speakers it is at the middle point between the tweeter and the mid/bass driver, and for their 3-way speaker it is at the height of the midrange driver.

It was pretty obvious that the measurements made by S+R were wrongfully done at the height of the tweeter in their review of the SCM25. Nice to see that Resolution got the measurements right, and it looks pretty good.

 

[DSJR]

Then the issue is that they don't even have a house sound, it's built parts glued together and hope for something not broken.

For business part, absolute C/P is usually not a thing remotely considered. It's usually more on things like famous brand name, better to be everyone (especially the boss, who often isn't remotely familiar of the tools, only having the money to invest and hire ppl) have always heard of (where, genelec and neumann isn't to layman).

Like when last year intel have deep trouble in CPUs self destructing and performing worse than AMD, lots of business still prefer buying intel based rigs, coz "nobody is fired for buying intel", even if it breaks at high rate, but if you suggest buying AMD and something minor need fixing and costing downtime, one will be in trouble of suggesting purchasing of a brand boss didn't heard.

To answer the two responses to my post above, I'd suggest that ATC certainly used to have a house sound, the scale and range getting 'bigger' as one went up the range. The 20 was designed to be used on a meter bridge I believe, or tight to a wall domestically. The 10 of old wasn't quite like this and neither were the larger models. The 11 in current form is pretty neutral I believe and only the 19 and maybe the 20 are slightly 'different in perspective. The 40As I heard, sounded pretty neutral in balance I remember. The original 20s I had back in 1992, needed a lot of rowing along and low bass was consicuopus by its relative absence (the neighbours loved them as the bass didn't transmit throiugh the party walls)

Few here would even look at ATCs these days and that's fine, and to Genelec and Neumann's advantage at this price level. ATCs are now priced into audiophool territory and in the far east, the reputation and lavishly finished glossy veneers count for far more, as is now normal in higher end markets... The loss of the large studio monitor market has no doubt fuelled this and of course in ATCs case, Billy himself is no longer with us to make executive design decisions, or argue his case on forums like this one. I mean, the JBL 4367 is very cheap in comparison and I'd suggest far superior in a passive domestic speaker sense (for pro use, a Neumann 420 pair would arguably be better but the depth of carcass and lack of veneer and grilles would only endear them domestically to an arc hobbyiost I think). The Dynaudio Focus 50 also makes sense and the pair I heard had a wonderful 'open window' into a well produced mix/recording.

 

[dfuller]

Found a review with measurements of the SCM11 passive model. Not bad, I'd say. Decent bass extension, F3 around 60hz F10 around 35hz. Slight bunching in the presence region but nothing horrible.

It'd be good to get a pair in for testing to someone with a NFS.

https://atc.audio/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/HIFI-CRITIC-SCM11-REVIEW-FULL.pdf

 

[teashea]

Found a review with measurements of the SCM11 passive model. Not bad, I'd say. Decent bass extension, F3 around 60hz F10 around 35hz. Slight bunching in the presence region but nothing horrible.

It'd be good to get a pair in for testing to someone with a NFS.

View attachment 447095

https://atc.audio/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/HIFI-CRITIC-SCM11-REVIEW-FULL.pdf

They are pretty. The measurements are awful. Compare to Neumann KH120 II's.

 

[dfuller]

They are pretty. The measurements are awful. Compare to Neumann KH120 II's.

This is an ATC thread.

 

[teashea]

This is an ATC thread.

and ATC has relevant competition.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

They are pretty. The measurements are awful. Compare to Neumann KH120 II's.

Why would you compare it to Neumann though? Wouldn’t another passive speaker be a more likely competitor?

If you’re looking for a pair of passive bookshelf speakers to pair up with your existing integrated amp, then a pair of active monitors isn’t much of an option unless you basically want to get rid of your existing setup.

Of course the Neumann measure flatter. They have eq inside to achieve that. It’s not like you couldn’t eq the ATC to flatter if you wanted. Or slap Dirac live onto it.

 

[YSC]

Why would you compare it to Neumann though? Wouldn’t another passive speaker be a more likely competitor?

If you’re looking for a pair of passive bookshelf speakers to pair up with your existing integrated amp, then a pair of active monitors isn’t much of an option unless you basically want to get rid of your existing setup.

Of course the Neumann measure flatter. They have eq inside to achieve that. It’s not like you couldn’t eq the ATC to flatter if you wanted. Or slap Dirac live onto it.

As such, pure technical speaking the KEF R3 meta or even the Reference 1 meta fits the bill.

 

[dfuller]

As such, pure technical speaking the KEF R3 meta or even the Reference 1 meta fits the bill.

I mean, the SCM11s are $2400 a pair. I don't think the Ref1M are really directly comparable. The R3, sure. I expect they'd sound quite different, but certainly a competitor.

 

[goat76]

I mean, the SCM11s are $2400 a pair. I don't think the Ref1M are really directly comparable. The R3, sure. I expect they'd sound quite different, but certainly a competitor.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if I preferred the sound of the SCM11s over both those KEFs, even if one of them is way more expensive.

The ATCs are also likely more robust and can handle more beating before the tweeters are blown. I have had some occasions when I mistakenly played a very loud signal while mixing music, which I’m sure many other speakers wouldn't handle, including the KEFs tweeters who seem a bit fragile.

 

[Cyling Nut]

I posted this on the Neumann KH 120 ii thread but I think it belongs here too:

I’ve had the Neumann KH120 ii for several months and I’m replacing it with the ATC SCM25A MK2.
The KH120 has better measurements and is a technological bargain at $2k.

So why switch to a non-DSP speaker that has many measurement flaws and costs 5x more?

Because the ATC sounds cleaner, clearer, with more details from top to bottom.
By comparison the KH120 sounds a bit muffled.

The ATC sound character is clarity. And I like that.


Sources: Eversolo DMP A8 with Qobuz and TV.

 

[boxerfan88]

lBecause the ATC sounds cleaner, clearer, with more details from top to bottom.
By comparison the KH120 sounds a bit muffled.

The ATC sound character is clarity. And I like that.

Must be due to the magical mid dome

 

[YSDR]

Must be due to the magical mid dome

Mainly, plus the woofer and the tweeter.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I posted this on the Neumann KH 120 ii thread but I think it belongs here too:

I’ve had the Neumann KH120 ii for several months and I’m replacing it with the ATC SCM25A MK2.
The KH120 has better measurements and is a technological bargain at $2k.

So why switch to a non-DSP speaker that has many measurement flaws and costs 5x more?

Because the ATC sounds cleaner, clearer, with more details from top to bottom.
By comparison the KH120 sounds a bit muffled.

The ATC sound character is clarity. And I like that.


Sources: Eversolo DMP A8 with Qobuz and TV.

I wonder if the KH150/ KH310 would have sounded closer to the ATCs

 

[5150]

I wonder if the KH150/ KH310 would have sounded closer to the ATCs

310 maybe, 150 probably not. Mid domes really are magic

 

[Cyling Nut]

I posted this on the Neumann KH 120 ii thread but I think it belongs here too:

I’ve had the Neumann KH120 ii for several months and I’m replacing it with the ATC SCM25A MK2.
The KH120 has better measurements and is a technological bargain at $2k.

So why switch to a non-DSP speaker that has many measurement flaws and costs 5x more?

Because the ATC sounds cleaner, clearer, with more details from top to bottom.
By comparison the KH120 sounds a bit muffled.

The ATC sound character is clarity. And I like that.


Sources: Eversolo DMP A8 with Qobuz and TV.

All the ASR measurements for the kh120 are better than any ATC scm25a measurements I have found.
Am I missing something in all the ASR measurements that show why the kh120 ii sounds muffled compared to the lesser measuring ATC scm25a mk2?
Are there other measurements that would show why the ATC sounds so much clearer with more details?

 

[Avp1]

All the ASR measurements for the kh120 are better than any ATC scm25a measurements I have found.
Am I missing something in all the ASR measurements that show why the kh120 ii sounds muffled compared to the lesser measuring ATC scm25a mk2?
Are there other measurements that would show why the ATC sounds so much clearer with more details?

Probably something is still not yet measured to explain the difference. But you need to go and listen both speakers to decide for yourself.

 

[Purité Audio]

‘Not measured’ yes…perhaps ATC could start with the things that can be measured.
Keith

 

[Frank Dernie]

There is mainly emphasis on even frequency response and dispersion both have which have been shown to be subjectively important in auditions in discussions.
I am not sure where low distortion and high power handling (linearity) stand on audition in relation to these but ATC are probably class leading in these parameters.

In the end the "conclusion" which measurement parameters matter most have been pretty thoroughly evaluated using subjective comments on controlled comparison. I would certainly use measurements to make a realistic short list to audition for myself were I to be in the market for speakers.

I have twice had an in depth audition of speakers with ATC drivers, both a long time ago. The first was in around 1981 when I heard ProAc EBS speakers and they were by a considerable margin the best speakers I had heard up to then but way more expensive than I could afford. They were the ATC mid dome with ATC 9" bass driver and the tweeter ProAc/ Celef used back then.
I eventually bought a used pair on ebay which are in my study and little used (I hate background music).
The second was 10 years later when I was convinced the 50 litre ATCs would be my best bet for last ever speaker and I arranged a demo at a dealer in Dunstable iirc but they had Apogee Duettas on demo in the same room and I preferred their spatial effect and went home confused...

I own a Genelec 8341 which is fine fwiw.