ATC SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[Frank Dernie]

The key to my statement was 'if you need something a bit larger than a Golf'. As an erstwhile owner of a Mk 7 GTI and a current Q5 I can attest that they are more similar than different. Both in fit and finish and driving dynamics. That is what you'd expect given the DNA.

Of course a better match for the GTI, and especially the R, would be one of the S or RS models, respectively.

I would never consider a SUV rather than a car.

 

[anmpr1]

I would never consider a SUV rather than a car.

That's an interesting thing. Is a hatch (hot or not) a 'car'? Strictly speaking, I mean.

And there seems to be an inverse relationship to fun and quality in... um... we'll call them vehicles. The most fun seemed to have the worst quality: MG Midget; Fiat 124 Spider; Jeep Wrangler. At least from personal experience. However, my GTI was fun, practical, and built pretty well, so maybe that's the exception.

If I bought another vehicle, which I hope not to (age and lack of driving), it would be a Golf R. I'd like something even a bit more raw and sporty, but my wife draws the line at the Caterham.

 

[stunta]

I am having a hard time reading following the comments here - there is a lot of talk about cars, non-ATC speakers and Brit-speaker bashing. Can folks please stay on topic?

@amirm the specs on the SCM19 says Frequency Response (-6dB): 54Hz-22kHz. It looks to me like your FR curve roughly matches this. Can you or someone please explain why you think there is a problem with bass with this speaker, given the published specs? Thanks.

 

[pjug]

I am having a hard time reading following the comments here - there is a lot of talk about cars, non-ATC speakers and Brit-speaker bashing. Can folks please stay on topic?

@amirm the specs on the SCM19 says Frequency Response (-6dB): 54Hz-22kHz. It looks to me like your FR curve roughly matches this. Can you or someone please explain why you think there is a problem with bass with this speaker, given the published specs? Thanks.

I suppose this is a matter of taste but -6dB at 54Hz seems pretty rolled off to me (for a speaker of this size). Compare to the Elac DBR-62, for example, going about 10 Hz lower.
Edit: having said that, if we use Amir's arrow as a reference it looks to me like -6dB is more like 48 Hz for the SCM19.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I am having a hard time reading following the comments here - there is a lot of talk about cars, non-ATC speakers and Brit-speaker bashing. Can folks please stay on topic?

@amirm the specs on the SCM19 says Frequency Response (-6dB): 54Hz-22kHz. It looks to me like your FR curve roughly matches this. Can you or someone please explain why you think there is a problem with bass with this speaker, given the published specs? Thanks.

Look at the shape of the FR. There's a high and broad midrange peak, roughly 500 - 1,500 Hz, with the response below that quite flat but much lower. That would make the speaker bass-light and even squawky. Not pleasant, even if you use a sub.

 

[AudioTodd]

The Sony Core bookshelf got a 4.5 and you gave it a headless panther as well, your conclusion was "subjective results are just too annoying for me to tolerate.".

I have Stirling, Spendor and Harbeth speakers and love them all - but I don’t pretend they are “accurate” in any sense! I’m seriously considering getting something from Revel to use as a reference. I want a close-as-possible-to-a-mic-feed system, but also enjoy playing around with various imperfect gear. This site has been invaluable in building/verifying that reference system.

 

[Nango]

Ooops, this is the second premium brit name in the last days along with PMC which I thought is beyond any doubt. Thanks ASR again and again!!!

 

[Archsam]

I have Stirling, Spendor and Harbeth speakers and love them all - but I don’t pretend they are “accurate” in any sense! I’m seriously considering getting something from Revel to use as a reference. I want a close-as-possible-to-a-mic-feed system, but also enjoy playing around with various imperfect gear. This site has been invaluable in building/verifying that reference system.

Funny I am in the exact same situation - I have been eyeing a pair of Revel M106 as there are a few tempting deals on Ebay, but I am holding myself back from spending unnecessary money.

I mean, it is hard to justify spending upward of a grand when I am pretty happy with what I have already, just for the sake of having a go at a textbook 'reference' speaker?

I am about to get myself a Minidsp UMIK-1 to start playing with room measurements. I thought this is a cheaper and more meaningful way to start understanding how to better improve my system. The result may or may not involve getting the Revels.

 

[ReaderZ]

I am amused by this, as a racing car designer who has driven both.
The A class is a good car, the G-wagen an expensive fashion statement for ignorant owners, and not particularly good at anything and bad at most things.

When did I say anything about A class? Also where did I say anything about racing? Learn to read? Since you completely missed the point, let's spill out clearly, ATC is best known for their pro line of powered stuido monitor, testing a hifi passive sku really doesn't tell you a lot about the company as a whole.

 

[q3cpma]

testing a hifi passive sku really doesn't tell you a lot about the company as a whole.

A botched product at a price point where you can clearly rule out cost related compromises means a problem somewhere in the design phase. Unless a completely different part of the company designed those, I don't see why I can't judge the company by this result. Or are you arguing that the skills to make good active and passive speakers are completely different?

 

[amirm]

The listening with only one loudspeaker in a big garage without a wall behind is very misleading.

What garage? There is no listening test performed in any garage. Here is where they are conducted:

And wider shot:

And mono listening is absolutely the best way to evaluate a speaker. It provides far better ability for a human to detect fidelity of a speaker than stereo or multichannel (where spatial effects get you to look past these flaws).

 

[amirm]

@amirm the specs on the SCM19 says Frequency Response (-6dB): 54Hz-22kHz. It looks to me like your FR curve roughly matches this. Can you or someone please explain why you think there is a problem with bass with this speaker, given the published specs? Thanks.

We are not talking about deep bass extension. We are talking about bass output in general which is way below higher frequencies:

We have a ton of content in the 100 to 500 Hz region in our music. Comparatively there is much less below 100 Hz. Even if we were to look at that region, we are down 10 dB reference to 1 kHz, not 6 dB. So the bass is going to sound weak no matter how you look at it.

 

[Chrise36]

A botched product at a price point where you can clearly rule out cost related compromises means a problem somewhere in the design phase. Unless a completely different part of the company designed those, I don't see why I can't judge the company by this result. Or are you arguing that the skills to make good active and passive speakers are completely different?

These are a 1500 euro/pair speaker ofcourse there are cost related compromises like the xover parts but the overdamped bass was part of the design.Why do you judge a company from one product and not from the whole range if you have read the tests from other sources?

 

[Chrise36]

Some design elements from their engineers:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/atc-speakers-technology/

 

[CDMC]

Please can someone send Amir a pair of LS3/5A speakers for testing?

This is THE monitor standard that forms the foundation of the 'classic' BBC sound, which is beloved by many even today. If they are tested and the measurements are disappointing it will burst the reputation of the BBC monitor sound once and for all. It will for me at the very least.

I would have send my Harbeth P3esr in for testing already if I don't have to ship them from the UK.

PLEASE CAN SOMEONE IN AMERICA SEND AMIR THEIR LS3/5A?

Stereophile has measured them. While not as complete as Amir’s measurements, they are pretty good. The big issue I see with them is they are low sensitivity combined with low power handling, which restricts dynamic performance. Not much of an issue in the nearfield for mixing and monitoring, but problematic when used as a room speaker.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/harbeth-p3esr-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[McFly]

Id be checking that the crossover hadnt been tampered with in the old speaker, or at least try and source the newer model for testing.

No more cars ! Never mind off road what about off topic .

Road rage lol.

 

[MZKM]

specs on the SCM19 says Frequency Response (-6dB): 54Hz-22kHz. It looks to me like your FR curve roughly matches this. Can you or someone please explain why you think there is a problem with bass with this speaker, given the published specs?

Those are the -6dB points relative to the average SPL, I believe I actually calculated 51Hz (there are multiple ways to compute the average SPL, I’ve been meaning to email a bunch of companies and ask how they do theirs).

That tells you nothing of the response within that range. a 6dB difference is the same as quadrupling the wattage (or “quartering” the wattage). Ideally the response should be neutral and roll-off in the bass. That is not happening here, we have 400Hz being around 5dB lower than 1kHz.

As others have pointed out, this looks like the result of the omission of a baffle step correction, the response of this speaker would actually be fairly neutral if it were in-wall mounted. However, because it’s in a box and bass travels all around while treble is highly directional, we lose SPL in the bass as it’s not all being directed towards the listener, thus most companies will adjust the crossover to account for this.

 

[vin63]

Here are my ATC SCM19 Version 2 measured in my listening room with 5 position Anthem Arc.
They are place 2 inch from back wall and the nearest side wall is about 5 feet away.
There are room suck outs at around 120 Hz and 200 Hz.
They make bass to around 55 Hz, but i cut them out to my sub-woofer at 80 Hz.
Both graphs show a small rise around 500 Hz to 800 Hz.
And they sound wonderful.

 

[stunta]

Here are my ATC SCM19 Version 2 measured in my listening room with 5 position Anthem Arc.
They are place 2 inch from back wall and the nearest side wall is about 5 feet away.
There are room suck outs at around 120 Hz and 200 Hz.
They make bass to around 55 Hz, but i cut them out to my sub-woofer at 80 Hz.
Both graphs show a small rise around 500 Hz to 800 Hz.
And they sound wonderful.

It would be fascinating to get the V2 reviewed by amirm.

because it’s in a box and bass travels all around while treble is highly directional, we lose SPL in the bass as it’s not all being directed towards the listener, thus most companies will adjust the crossover to account for this.

Thank you so much for explaining what this means in a way even I could understand. Now that I understand it, I wonder if they have the baffle step compensation in the active versions, but when they took the same drivers and stuck into a passive speaker, they forgot or didn't care to do it? In any case, this is terrible since a proper QA process should have caught it. Given how stupid I have been with getting sucked in by marketing, I am gating all my future purchases behind a review here at ASR

 

[q3cpma]

These are a 1500 euro/pair speaker ofcourse there are cost related compromises like the xover parts

It's a medium 2-way with nothing special, not even their expensive midrange dome, I'd like to see proof of such compromise. Also, where did you find that price? The v2 are around 2700€ here. Which doesn't include quality amplification, of course; unlike the incredible monitors you can get for that amount of money.

but the overdamped bass was part of the design.Why do you judge a company from one product and not from the whole range if you have read the tests from other sources?

First because these are high quality measurements and second because of everything I said that you didn't argue against. If you buy a 2000€ photography/reference computer monitor with a loosy deltaE, low contrast and bad panel uniformity, you'll put the company in the mental dumpster where it belongs, why do speakers get a magical pass?