At which sound pressure levels are loudspeakers calibrated to achieve a flat perceived loudness curve?

[dasdoing]

Beethoven did not tell pianists to hit the middle keys gently and the lower and upper keys hard during ppp.

you don't get what he is saying. the pianist will play the bass notes as hard as necessary in order to sound balanced with the middle tones. not because he is thinking about loudness contours, but because he is listening.

it's a bad example anyways, pianos have no bass lol. they fake it

 

[Sokel]

it's a bad example anyways, pianos have no bass lol. they fake it

Not exactly.
A0 of a piano is near 30Hz and the string used is sometimes 2 meters long.
That's genuine bass.

 

[dasdoing]

Not exactly.
A0 of a piano is near 30Hz and the string used is sometimes 2 meters long.
That's genuine bass.

it's there, but not audible.
unless you can show me an example

 

[Sokel]

it's there, but not audible.
unless you can show me an example

You can play it yourself (I hope I got a good sample):

(note that an extreme piano like this is an octave lower than what you will hear in the attached sample)

 

[dasdoing]

You can play it yourself (I hope I got a good sample):

(note that an extreme piano like this is an octave lower than what you will hear in the attached sample)

 

[Sokel]

View attachment 264291

Oops,you're right,didn't event listened to it.
Try this one,at least it has a good 50Hz into it:

(edit:Marked the around 28Hz too)

 

[dasdoing]

Oops,you're right,didn't event listened to it.
Try this one,at least it has a good 50Hz into it:

(edit:Marked the around 28Hz too)


View attachment 264296

that one is much better. still we don't really hear anything below that 53Hz one, right?
still, this piano has bass, yes

 

[fpitas]

There's no circle of confusion. The mixing engineer cannot encode a loudness curve into mix. Ends.

Lol yes. Somehow this silly thread marches on, though.

 

[Sokel]

that one is much better. still we don't really hear anything below that 53Hz one, right?
still, this piano has bass, yes

When you're close and hit hard enough you can even feel it with Grand pianos.
Specially if you hit a strong A-C#-E (A major chord) down there.
Difficult to capture though,at least to me with completely amateur gear.

 

[dasdoing]

Oops,you're right,didn't event listened to it.
Try this one,at least it has a good 50Hz into it:

(edit:Marked the around 28Hz too)


View attachment 264296

here it is beefed up with 3 sine waves lol.
too lazy to add fades to them.

 

[Sokel]

here it is beefed up with 3 sine waves lol.
too lazy to add fades to them.

That's scary man!
Yep,close enough!

 

[Mnyb]

The RME DAC’s has the capacity to calibrate the levels at which various loudness compensation should kick in.
So you can decide at which volume level your system should return to flat .
Then you can calibrate this to be somewhat useful, much better than the crude on/off loudness of old.
Loudness curve much be varied for each playback volume. RMe helps with that .

Your ofcourse have no idea of how loud it “should” sound .

Here movie soundtrack are much better both you and studio are suppose to calibrate to the same level .
Then the sound can be produced to sound rigth as it’s known how loud you will playback and if deviate and play softer your AVR knows by hove much and for example, as suggested a function like dynamic eq could compensate ( I don’t have such modern adyssey system myself )

A pity music does not have a reference level . Most of the time we play to soft. I have a rare example ofthe opposite.
I have one recording with some kind of early guitar or lute and it’s say on the CD don’t play to loud as the instrument itself is not very loud and would sound unnatural if cranked up .

 

[ZolaIII]

Calibration reference in accordance to ISO 226 2003 is 84 dB.
To those who have a button on the amp hit it to those who don't you can try enabling "Loudness" in JRiver trough internal volume control. To those who opese to it well enjoy how ever you like it anyway. There is no accurate preference for bass level anyhow our individual hearing differs to much for that. And that is what equal loudness studies prove the best.

 

[Trell]

The RME DAC’s has the capacity to calibrate the levels at which various loudness compensation should kick in.
So you can decide at which volume level your system should return to flat .
Then you can calibrate this to be somewhat useful, much better than the crude on/off loudness of old.
Loudness curve much be varied for each playback volume. RMe helps with that .

The RME also has tone controls for easy and quick adjustment on the fly, which I use on occasion.

 

[TSB]

Lol yes. Somehow this silly thread marches on, though.

Silly is agreeing with a random strawman without adding value to the conversation and then making fun of people who are trying to engage constructively

 

[fpitas]

Silly is agreeing with a random strawman without adding value to the conversation and then making fun of people who are trying to engage constructively

OK, I'll engage constructively: you don't design a speaker, any speaker, in the fashion proposed in the thread title. Happy?

Even the most cursory examination of Amir's speaker testing would reveal that.

 

[Rja4000]

I don't know what a "flat perceived loudness curve" exactly means.
For a music that approaches the real musicians performance, I guess you'd need to play at the original level at the microphone position (if the microphones are omni).
Given the studio work was performed also at that level, looking fir a "natural sounding" sound.

 

[fpitas]

I don't know what a "flat perceived loudness curve" exactly means.

That's the point here. No effort has been made to somehow calibrate speakers to some perceived loudness curve. You measure them with a microphone and go for flat response.

 

[TSB]

OK, I'll engage constructively: you don't design a speaker, any speaker, in the fashion proposed in the thread title. Happy?

Even the most cursory examination of Amir's speaker testing would reveal that.

I suppose you're talking about passive speakers. There are definitely active speakers with loudness compensation.

 

[Sokel]

I don't know what a "flat perceived loudness curve" exactly means.
For a music that approaches the real musicians performance, I guess you'd need to play at the original level at the microphone position (if the microphones are omni).
Given the studio work was performed also at that level, looking fir a "natural sounding" sound.

Always curious about it,I don't think the studio gear in the 50's could do that (at least for peaks) working with big nice orchestras,at least the ones some friends here told me that was used.
So we are talking about moderns ones,right?