At what level is noise heard in your system?

[Soniclife]

Ok, I follow a free podcast for boxing . It’s similar to here in that you can do the Patreon thing ( like I do) but the guy who provides it asked for a non financial contribution at the start of every podcast . This varies but generally it’s about reviewing and sharing , I suggest we all have a chat behind the scenes and come up with a similar ‘ask’. If you enjoy the forum you can ‘pay’ by participating in ‘testing’ .

No ones obligated but maybe we can get organised and really drive participation and in doing so gather meaningful data on a range of things.

@Blumlein 88 if you and a few others are interested in doing this let me know . It needs a coordinated effort imo , be driven by our brand and given a dedicated place.

Then we can achieve something, else we will continue the status quo Dennis knows all to well.

Good idea. Is it worth starting by someone putting a sticky post up of listening test threads?

The storage and distribution of the test files could do with a long term solution to help keep threads alive.

 

[Sal1950]

There is something to what Thomas said. I've never gotten much participation even on large forums with such things. A bit frustrating to read listen for yourself and when given the chance not many care to do so.

I've been around when Blumlein 88 posted some tests on other large forum. The best (and worst) part were the posts made detailing how the golden eared member wasn't going to take the test and his reasoning why. Some would make for good stand up comedy.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I've been around when Blumlein 88 posted some tests on other large forum. The best (and worst) part were the posts made detailing how the golden eared member wasn't going to take the test and his reasoning why. Some would make for good stand up comedy.

Yes. Several would say I only posted tests in which I knew what the results would be. So they weren't listening to them. Some would complain that I "required" them to take tests proving they could hear differences before I would believe them so they weren't taking part. A couple complained once because I'd obfuscated the test in a way they couldn't see which was which in a sound editor program (in other words they intended to cheat instead of listen and be honest). I thought that one was particularly ironic. A vocal trust your ears Golden ear was complaining they couldn't use measured results of my files to cheat on the test.

 

[Blumlein 88]

You are talking about about noise that shouldn't be audibly apparent for normal listening unless it comes from the source?

That was achievable decades ago.

Source noise also has been capably reduced. Practise does not always match capability.

Audiophile navel-gazing again?

Well remember the initial inspiration for this was from a Dolby paper saying at our most sensitive frequencies many rooms had a near 0 dbSPL noise level. For that reason you may need more dynamic range to be sure of complete audible transparency. You might quibble with that conclusion on several levels. I simply wondered if it were true that most people could hear near 0 dbSPL 3-5 khz. Results would indicate for most people it was true or close to true given playback levels involved. Plus letting people hear this for themselves I thought worthwhile.

 

[trl]

Below there are my own test results:

Dynamic tests:
- 1) https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_dynamic.php?dyna=78 - Passed 10 our of 10 (100%), I can hear 78 dB below the full scale.
- 2) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/noise-test-zip.18957/ - I was able to hear the -80 dB if the initial volume setup was mid-to-high, like I usually listen to my preferred songs. Today's test song was "I would (Edit) - Dirty Doering" because it has hands clapping and a great bass to test any kind of diaphragms (my tympani as well). When raising the volume to very high level I could hear track's background noise and, of course, -90 dB noise as well; however, this is not my normal listening music level, unless I'm in the mood to listen to some track's refrain/chorus for about 1 minute or so.
- 3) https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...echnical-measurements.5770/page-3#post-190831 - I was able to distinguish the sinewave and also to hear very well the squarewave, both being 84 dB below the main reference 440 Hz signal.
Equipment used: headphones.

Smallest audible change in level:
- 4) https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.5 - Passed 10 our of 10 (100%), 0.5 dB is the lowest level difference. I could identify.
Equipment used: headphones.

Highest frequency:
- 5) https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_frequency.php?frq=17 - Passed 10 our of 10 (100%), 16 KHz is the highest frequency I can hear with headphones. When using speakers I start hearing from 19 KHz and down (barely perceptible, but it's definitely there irritating my ears).
- 6) https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_mosquito.php - No problems hearing the 17.4 KHz on speakers, very loud actually.
- 7) http://www.ultrasonic-ringtones.com/ - I can barely hear 18.8 KHz on speakers; on headphones the first ringtone I can hear is 15.8 KHz.
- 8) http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/ - 16 KHz is barely audible on my headphones, but it gets up to 18 KHz when using speakers.
- 9) https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_frequency.php - I only got 14 KHz here with my headphones; I'll probably repeat this test sometimes.
Equipment used: headphones & speakers.

Lowest frequency:
- 10) https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_subwooferharmonicdistortion.php - 20 Hz are mildly audible, from 30 Hz up, everything gets loud.
- 11) https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencychecklow.php - same as above.
- 12) https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_sinebursts20-200.php - same as above.
Equipment used: headphones & speakers.

My audiogram:
- 13) https://hearingtest.online/ - please see below pic:

Equipment used: headphones.

Tests were conducted on:
- Mackie MR6mk3 + Mackie MRS10mk3
- CANTON GLE 496 (no sub)
- AKG K550, AKG K701, Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohms- balanced
- Beats Solo2, FOSTEX T50RPmk3, Hifiman HE-560, GRADO SR60i - single ended

Sources used:
- ASUS Essence One MKii Muses + Matrix M-Stage HPA 3B - for balanced cans only
- ASUS U7, MacBook Pro and BURSON PLAY (w/LPSU) - for single ended cans only
- Pioneer A-209R, BURSON BANG

P.S.: I nicely asked Dr. Ir. Stephane Pigeon to add a "harmonics blind test" inside the Blind-test section on his website: the https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php. I do hope he'll have the time to do that next year, so we can all identify the original fundamental sinewave from the one enriched with harmonics.

 

[danadam]

-70 dbFS normally, -80 dbFS when listening loud or classical (headphones)
Also (guitar pluck effect from sox, starts from 0 dbFS and goes down):

 

[trl]

-70 dbFS normally, -80 dbFS when listening loud or classical (headphones)
Also (guitar pluck effect from sox, starts from 0 dbFS and goes down):
[...]]

Thanks for posting, I got -72db myself (calibration done with the "clapping hands" file from https://hearingtest.online/); actually, I could somehow barely hear the -78dB in a very quiet environment and if struggling my brain and ears a lot. Setting the volume knob to very loud levels I could hear -78dB or even -84dB, but I usually don't listen so loud, unless there's a refrain/chorus and for 1-2 minutes or so.

I've user MacBook Pro and Beats Solo2 for this test in a very quiet environment (my bedroom, early in the morning).

 

[etc6849]

Thanks for the link!

That zip file is perfect. I can hear the -90dB toggle reliably, although this is with volume slightly higher than normal.

Too bad the tests stop at -90dB. I am wondering what the limits of my system are now. I just downloaded Audacity, and will see if I can make some lower level test tones and upload them.

2) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/noise-test-zip.18957/

 

[March Audio]

Well remember the initial inspiration for this was from a Dolby paper saying at our most sensitive frequencies many rooms had a near 0 dbSPL noise level. For that reason you may need more dynamic range to be sure of complete audible transparency. You might quibble with that conclusion on several levels. I simply wondered if it were true that most people could hear near 0 dbSPL 3-5 khz. Results would indicate for most people it was true or close to true given playback levels involved. Plus letting people hear this for themselves I thought worthwhile.

You have prompted me to measure the spectrum of noise in my listening room.

 

[etc6849]

Here's some DTMF test tones I generated with Audacity.

At the MLP, I can faintly hear the -100dB DTMF tone with my volume at +6dB. I can hear the -105dB signal if I get really close to a speaker, but not at the MLP.

I don't remember what +0dB was on my system, but it is not 85dB/standard. When I set it up I went a little hot as I wanted to make sure I had enough volume range in TotalMix for movies and audiophile music. At the time I was also time aligning and level matching 20 drivers (5 subs and 5 three way speakers)... I remember it taking me many hours and that was after I had done it a few times to pick the filters and slopes.

 

[trl]

You have prompted me to measure the spectrum of noise in my listening room.

Glad you have some tools to do that. I only rely on iPhone6 and DecibelX tool, which is probably calibrated for most iPhones, but still can't be much reliable for that.

However, if anyone has a cheap and good tool to do that, please share with us. Thanks!

 

[etc6849]

RoomEQ Wizard is free and what I use for measurements. I started with an UMIK-1 USB mic that works great for room measurements. Definitely worth it; I forgot how much it was, but you order the mic direct from MiniDSP. REW is awesome and very well thought out.

If you have a quiet room and want to measure its noise floor, most mics seem to have high self noise. I moved on to a better mic, but even it has 20dBA of self noise (and was really expensive). My room's noise floor is probably about ~35dBA with the all the treatments though.

Glad you have some tools to do that. I only rely on iPhone6 and DecibelX tool, which is probably calibrated for most iPhones, but still can't be much reliable for that.

However, if anyone has a cheap and good tool to do that, please share with us. Thanks!

 

[March Audio]

Beat me to it. Umik @ $75

https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

 

[trl]

Eh, you're right actually... I've used REW to EQ my speakers, so I'll give it a try, thanks.

 

[Blumlein 88]

+1 on the UMIK USB. It isn't perfect or without issues, but it is very good, and easy to use with REW. Laptop+Umik and you can do some good.

The Behringer ECM8000 measurement mic is also good. Though I don't think you get a calibration file for it like you do with the UMIK. Plus you'll need a recording interface to use it

The nice thing about the Umik is it is USB, and REW with the calibration can give you direct SPL readings without any fuss on your part.

 

[trl]

I'm using CRESTRON and TANDBERG/CISCO mics, from decommissioned AV systems.

Here's some DTMF test tones I generated with Audacity.

At the MLP, I can faintly hear the -100dB DTMF tone with my volume at +6dB. I can hear the -105dB signal if I get really close to a speaker, but not at the MLP.

I don't remember what +0dB was on my system, but it is not 85dB/standard. When I set it up I went a little hot as I wanted to make sure I had enough volume range in TotalMix for movies and audiophile music. At the time I was also time aligning and level matching 20 drivers (5 subs and 5 three way speakers)... I remember it taking me many hours and that was after I had done it a few times to pick the filters and slopes.

Ideally would be to use as reference your regular listening levels, or a 0dBFS test file that shouldn't be extremely high. Then, try checking what's the lowest level you can hear, but not diminishing the distance between your ears and your speakers. You'll quickly realize that with headphones your ears dynamic range would be better, but most likely lower than 80dB, depending on the test file's frequency chosen.

I can also hear 1KHz dithered files @ -105dB with my cans or even with speakers, but when switching to 0dBFS level I'm totally blowing away my ears, so this is definitely not my ear's headroom. You could also try audiocheck's test too, as these are alternating 0dBFS with -78dB and it's really challenging.

 

[RayDunzl]

My 2am noise floor with a UMIK-1, and two or three fans running quietly.

My 3pm noise floor. Nearly the same, just more distant low frequency noise - probably trucks and cars on the Interstate, 2.75 miles away, and local business traffic about 1.75 miles at its center.

With a -79dBfs 1kHz tone when the output volume of the speakers is "calibrated" to 66dB SPL at -30dBfs at the listening/microphone position

 

[Blumlein 88]

My 2am noise floor with a UMIK-1, and two or three fans running quietly.

View attachment 19133

With a -79dBfs 1kHz tone when "calibrated" to 66dB SPL at -30dBfs

View attachment 19134

See those 3-5 khz ranges. Below 10 dbSPL. We can hear into noise some, so your dynamic range needs to be at least 0 db to whatever the max SPL your rig can put out. Maybe 105 or 110 db dynamic range.

 

[RayDunzl]

We can hear into noise some, so your dynamic range needs to be at least 0 db to whatever the max SPL your rig can put out. Maybe 105 or 110 db dynamic range.

You nailed it.

I did a very brief "calibrated" drum solo once and saw 116.9 peak.

Since the breakers didn't pop, I don't think the amps maxed out - plateau bias on the Krells will shut things down when they step up to high levels (and hold for 30 seconds or so). My single 15A wall outlet can be overloaded under extreme conditions.

Times two.

Sounded like a drum kit, but also sounded like somebody was taking a baseball bat to the speakers...

105dB is normal too loud, and 110dB peak SPL occurs sometimes on Beer Saturday with my Audio Buddy.

 

[trl]

[...]
Since the breakers didn't pop, I don't think the amps maxed out [...] My single 15A wall outlet can be overloaded under extreme conditions.[...]

You could anytime move to Europe, you know? The 230V from there might you a lot.
Or get 2 mono block amps and fit each one into different circuits, each one having 16A. That should help too.

[...]
105dB is normal too loud, and 110dB peak SPL occurs sometimes on Beer Saturday with my Audio Buddy.

I assume these are peaks, right? So...AVG would be somewhere around 90dB?