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Astell & Kern Kann Ultra DAP Review
- Thread starter amirm
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JSmith
Master Contributor
We don't have to, that's what the measurements are for.
I think the poor ratings were more to do with;
JSmith
Interestingly I purchased one after reading this review, I couldn't wait to see how bad it sounded. Actually set up correctly it is startlingly good as reported by virtually all other reviewers! I must however thank them as it seems bad press perhaps led to greatly reduced pricing as it is run out. I tested around 12 different DAPS in my search, none beat the Kann Ultra across my range of headphones. I am obviously not alone as almost all reviwers agree. I believe that some analomly is evidenced herein.
My experience with the Kann Ultra over my phones from 50 to 300 ohm show no noticable distortion difference at any audible volume. About a dozen people who have tested these agree. I do remember one of the hifi mags publishing a terrible review of speakers once and then finding thery were damaged. It is most odd that a range of measurements appear to demonstrate a clear tendancy towards some degree of underlying failure, that in research of literally dozens of testers have actually never heard!
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JSmith
Master Contributor
RandomEar
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That's because most humans fail to hear distortion below -40 dB in actual music even when offered a direct comparison to the undistorted signal. In addition, measurement instruments are significantly more discerning and reliable than human ears. This devices offers a somewhat flawed headphone amp and it may sound noisy or distorted with specific headphones, depending on impedance, gain and listening level. But the results also show that it won't perform badly with all headphones or under all circumstances - in fact, it will perform fine in the majority of cases. So it's not surprising that "dozens of testers" failed to identify the problems by ear. On the contrary: It shows why subjective listening tests are flawed and incomplete and why good measurements are needed to evaluate audio devices.
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Then what is thev point of areview which has no reference to how audio equipment sounds?No one said it would sound bad...
JSmith
Robbo99999
Master Contributor
DACs & amps shouldn't sound like anything, they should just reproduce the signal without unwanted distortion or changes to the frequency response & with enough power. The fact that this device is costly and doesn't measure well mean it's generally got a poor vote. It may not be possible for all people to notice the distortion that this device can inject, but it's better to be safer and have a device that measures well & hopefully also good value money wise at the same time - so that's why this device got panned.
Some people with some headphones will likely be able to hear the defects. Those people are informed by the review that this device is not for them.
Everyone else is informed that there are technically better devices at lower cost - so absent other reasons (aesthetics/features etc) then this device is probably not for them either. Why should I take the risk of buying something that I might find out later has - under some circumstances - audible defects.
Especially at the cost of a top end iPhone - which certainly has technically better audio performance.
Roland68
Master Contributor
I have twice compared Astell & Kern DAPs (in the €1,000–€4,000 price range) against other DAPs (costing around €250–€1,500) in blind, level-matched tests.
I found absolutely no reason to buy them based on this comparison—certainly no sonic advantages; if anything, quite the opposite.
Even a distributor struggled to justify the product when listening to one of the expensive Astell & Kern DAPs alongside a DAP from another brand costing around €300 in a blind test: ten times the price, yet no audible advantage.
But that is just my personal opinion and experience.
Perhaps the design or build materials are reasons to buy them.
However of dozens of reviewers no one has mentioned any audio issues, quite the opposite. And what correlation exists between these measurements and audio performance if no one actually hears anything? Watching the ASR vid on pychoacoustics really brings home how what we hear can bear little correlation to what a machine measures.
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Which ultimately returns to the question:
"Then why pay over the odds for something that technically performs poorly - whether audible or not?"
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RandomEar
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As explained before: The correlation absolutely exists and there are operating conditions for this DAP where you're likely to get some audible degradation - mainly noise in this case. That's the value of the measurements: They tell you before you buy and can test it with the specific headphone you own. I don't see how that's not useful?
The fact that many other devices perform much better and don't show audible defects should be seen as a positive thing and not as a weird argument to disregard objective testing. If maybe one in twenty DAPs, DACs or whatever else shows problematic results in the measurements, wouldn't you want to know that before buying?
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Roland68
Master Contributor
Most people don't understand how the business with reviewers (influencers) works.
If they were to review the devices truly honestly, most manufacturers and distributors would stop providing them with units for testing.
If honest reviews diverge too much from the less-than-honest ones, the honest testers lose credibility because they are in the absolute minority.
Do you see where the fundamental problem with these reviews lies?
I have been dealing with this type of "sponsored" product testing and award-giving for nearly 40 years—across fields like audio, photography, cycling, diving, sports, and other commercial or hobby sectors.
Almost all of these tests and awards are paid for in one way or another. I know this for a fact, as I have worked in some of these areas as a manufacturer, developer, or tester and have witnessed it firsthand.
Genuine, comparable measurements—like the ones Amir provides—are far more honest and allow for valid conclusions regarding sound quality. That kind of data cannot be bought; the figures are easily verifiable and, above all, comparable.
That raises the question of why anyone would spend more money for inferior measurements.
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The size of that A&K dap is monstrous but compared to some of the latest Dap releases it looks rather diminutive.
I've owned a 2023 Hiby R6 Gen iii for a couple of years but always found it heavy and cumbersome in use so its never left the house and I doubt I've used it more than 20/30 hrs in total so I recently bought a Hiby M300 in the sales for £105, much happier with the M300 as its small, light and slim with exactly the same features and android use as its bigger brother - sounds exactly the same which is zero surprise to me/my ears which seems to disappoint and engender scorn thrown my way from the vast majority of dap users on headfi - its amusing/sad to see the golden ears discuss their bat like hearing abilities that justify spending £3k on daps
With the R6 I was always aware there was a lump in my pocket, with the M300 I can forget it's there which leads me to using it more and as it is smaller it fits/disappears into the hand for easier use, and it has a tiny speaker on the bottom which is perfectly suitable for podcasts or audiobooks etc, I wouldn't want to listen to banging 135bpm techno through it though........... for those occasions I will use my iPhone 17 speakers
AirPods Pro 2's and Eversolo remote for scale.
If anyone in UK wants a perfect Hiby R6 Gen iii for £150 then get in touch, I'll list it on classifieds at some point over the weekend
Edit : I live alone and have my small living room fully acoustically treated with only one seat/recliner in the room in the sweet spot, I can play my system (in sig below) as loud as I like whenever I like so if I lived with others whether that be a flat share or with a partner then perhaps I’d splurge out on a major headfi setup to satisfy my irrational desire for “better/best.
I've owned a 2023 Hiby R6 Gen iii for a couple of years but always found it heavy and cumbersome in use so its never left the house and I doubt I've used it more than 20/30 hrs in total so I recently bought a Hiby M300 in the sales for £105, much happier with the M300 as its small, light and slim with exactly the same features and android use as its bigger brother - sounds exactly the same which is zero surprise to me/my ears which seems to disappoint and engender scorn thrown my way from the vast majority of dap users on headfi - its amusing/sad to see the golden ears discuss their bat like hearing abilities that justify spending £3k on daps
With the R6 I was always aware there was a lump in my pocket, with the M300 I can forget it's there which leads me to using it more and as it is smaller it fits/disappears into the hand for easier use, and it has a tiny speaker on the bottom which is perfectly suitable for podcasts or audiobooks etc, I wouldn't want to listen to banging 135bpm techno through it though........... for those occasions I will use my iPhone 17 speakers
AirPods Pro 2's and Eversolo remote for scale.
If anyone in UK wants a perfect Hiby R6 Gen iii for £150 then get in touch, I'll list it on classifieds at some point over the weekend
Edit : I live alone and have my small living room fully acoustically treated with only one seat/recliner in the room in the sweet spot, I can play my system (in sig below) as loud as I like whenever I like so if I lived with others whether that be a flat share or with a partner then perhaps I’d splurge out on a major headfi setup to satisfy my irrational desire for “better/best.
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It is a piece of audio equipment designed for its sound! Technically poor - how everyone who listens likes it!
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Roland68
Master Contributor
You really ought to conduct level-matched blind tests comparing this unit with others.
We did exactly that, and the sound wasn't any better—and was actually sometimes slightly worse—than that of a €300 unit. When I confronted a distributor with this and he listened to it himself, he just hemmed and hawed, especially regarding the price.
Robbo99999
Master Contributor
How many or what percentage of buyers of this device that will be able to detect the distortion that it can sometimes generate under various loads & conditions is not known, but what is known is that it does have those measurable disadvantages - no point paying over the odds for a product that could create audible issues for the end user. It's worthy to buy good measuring DACS & amps to be sure that you're not introducing any audible artifacts into the audio chain - and that's the beauty of reviews here on ASR - and indeed you also get to choose a well measuring device of your choice for the price of your choice - it's just all good information on which to make a good informed purchase.
I tried more than a dozen DAP's myself, and at least 40 other reviewers agree, even in comparison tests, they hear nothing remotely as this test suggests!
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