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ASR Will Create A Subjective Audio Revolution

SimpleTheater

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The very purpose of ASR and it’s founder @amirm will create a world of subjective audio the likes this world has never seen. Even though this result is purportedly the very opposite of the goals stated by ASR and it’s members (this includes myself).

In the words of the late, great J Gordon Holt “The reason a subjective reviewer hears more than the "objective" reviewer is not that his auditory equipment is superior. It's because he has accepted the premise that identical measurements do not necessarily ensure identical sound, and has trained himself to hear the differences when they exist.”

And while those words are nearly 30 years old, they are more apt in a world 30 years from today, where we accept nothing but truly transparent products. When that world comes consumers will have to convince themselves, their spouses and their friends, that the amplifier they want so badly, and costs 10x the price of a ‘generic amp’ isn’t about the shiny metallic surface and logo, but about something much more. Who is going to fill this void but subjectivists who will speak, not of flowery language we currently associate with the world of Stereophile and such publications, but they will go full-tropical jungle. One subwoofer will be a herd of elephants striking fear into your head, while the other, equally measuring but slightly less costly, will simply not invoke the same sense of fear. For whatever reason the measurements simply do not capture the out-of-body experience, but maybe measurements aren’t designed to capture the emotional fear a product can invoke.

While I look forward to the day when most, if not all, equipment measures transparently, I believe we are working to usher in an age where objectivists are irrelevant and subjectivists rule the audio world.
 

jeffbook

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Ok, but what if it is determined that the "herd of elephants"sub is playing at a slightly higher SPL than the other sub? Or maybe it just has a greater visual appeal. DBT still will rule.
 

Speedskater

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In the words of the late, great J Gordon Holt “The reason a subjective reviewer hears more than the "objective" reviewer is not that his auditory equipment is superior. It's because he has accepted the premise that identical measurements do not necessarily ensure identical sound, and has trained himself to hear the differences when they exist.”
I sure that later in his life he would not have made an incorrect statement like that. (at least in the audiophile meaning of 'subjective')
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Thinking about it further. If the differences are so great that there is are subjective differences, then there are also significant measurement differences.
 
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Promit

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Amir is hardly the first to show that popular, well reviewed gear looks like garbage on objective testing. Many people have hand waved these tests away and will always continue to do so.
 

Feanor

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While I look forward to the day when most, if not all, equipment measures transparently, I believe we are working to usher in an age where objectivists are irrelevant and subjectivists rule the audio world.
My interpretation of this statement is that there may be a day when ALL equipment measures so nearly perfectly that objective differences are irrelevant. When that day comes subjectively perceived differences will be the only relevant ones.

For me that will be the day when I believe that all amps sound the same when volumes are match to <0.1 dB -- however that day hasn't arrived.
 

DuxServit

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Not sure what OP is saying. The consumer space has been won by streaming services and mobile devices. The remaining market for audio gear is small.
 
OP
SimpleTheater

SimpleTheater

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My interpretation of this statement is that there may be a day when ALL equipment measures so nearly perfectly that objective differences are irrelevant. When that day comes subjectively perceived differences will be the only relevant ones.
Exactly!
 

Jimbob54

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You know when people accuse ASR of being a cult?.....

I'm hoping there is a good degree of tongue in the OP's cheek.
 

Robbo99999

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Regarding the original post - general nonsense! (in my opinion)
 
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phoenixdogfan

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" identical measurements do not necessarily ensure identical sound " Only true if the measurement set is incomplete and fails to capture something audible. There is no reason epistemologically to believe that there are objective effects that are unable to be measured, at least at the level of the classically physical world we inhabit.
 

Chromatischism

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My interpretation of this statement is that there may be a day when ALL equipment measures so nearly perfectly that objective differences are irrelevant. When that day comes subjectively perceived differences will be the only relevant ones.

For me that will be the day when I believe that all amps sound the same when volumes are match to <0.1 dB -- however that day hasn't arrived.
This makes sense. We've already gotten there with amps. Floyd Toole said that research into what people like and the advent of more sophisticated measuring techniques has provided a means for people to make better speakers, and that in fact on average speakers are getting better. I think we could point to quite a few speakers already where the measurements are converging around a central theme and we will have to listen to them to pick which ones we want to keep for ourselves.
 

solderdude

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J. Gordon Holt left out one important word: 'believe', it should go in where I inserted the ****

In the words of the late, great J Gordon Holt “The reason a subjective reviewer hears more than the "objective" reviewer is not that his auditory equipment is superior. It's because he has accepted the premise that identical measurements do not necessarily ensure identical sound, and has trained himself to hear the differences when they **** exist.”

There will be no revolution. The world keeps on turning. People will still believe. People will continue to 'hear' things (even when they aren't there). People will always be buying snake-oil no matter how loud people shout they shouldn't and not even when it would be forbidden by law.
It's just people's nature. It's not just in audio, its in every aspect of life.
 
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