ASR took the fun out of amp reviews

[JSmith]

Like the delusion/illusion/dogma that (basic) 'measurements' ~ truth?

Amir does a lot more than basic measurements.

Moreover, none of the amplifiers measured on this forum are constant-output devices: capable of driving any load

Since when has that been needed to play music?


JSmith

 

[kyuu]

I never knew that we needed speaker amplifiers to be capable of driving any possible load and not just, y'know, speakers.

 

[Bleib]

I've seen the reverse. People just don't want speakers. So much so they put up with some pretty awful sound rather than have a couple boxes around the TV. People with the space and money for it to be a non-issue.

Yes. You can even find this this info in many used sales. Selling because of "no room", or "wife thinks they're ugly" --> so we now have a soundbar
This is in fact why I've been able to get some older speakers at very fine prices, people just get rid of that stuff

 

[delta76]

How do people that claim they can hear the difference between cables manage to ignore all of that?

You don't understand, that's the musicality, the wide sound stage they were talking about. it's not a fault of the amp, but a musical characteristic

/s

 

[rdenney]

Like the delusion/illusion/dogma that measurements ~ truth?




It's also easy to argue that if you need/want hundreds of watts at home, your speakers are fundamentally flawed. Unless you think obesity is a sign of good health.

Moreover, none of the amplifiers measured on this forum are constant-output devices: capable of driving any load, from dead short to open-circuit.


You might (re)consider the "path of least resistance" heuristic.

Is it your turn this week?

Measurements are fact. You can’t wave that away, and even if you claim they are incomplete or irrelevant they are still fact. So, you can’t attack them on the basis of truth unless you think Amir is falsifying measurements.

If you attack them on the basis of relevance or completeness, then you must describe a relevant measurement that is missing, including demonstrating that variable performance on that measurement axis can actually be heard in realistic listening contexts. The relevance of many measurements, and their thresholds of audibility, have been and continue to be discussed at length here, and an amp that measures poorly enough to threaten those thresholds would be a poor performer in any setting.

As to driving a dead short speaker, then my question is why an amp should be expected to accommodate such a poor design when the vast majority of people manage to enjoy speakers that don’t impose that fault? All my amps are happy to run with open loads, but a speaker with an open load has no way to convert voltage to sound.

As to efficiency, my (not uncommon) speakers have a reasonable sensitivity relative to cost, and the (readily available and affordable) amp has abundant power relative to that sensitivity, even with my fairly rigorous loudness requirements. So, I reject the implication of your claimed limitation. These days, clean power is both cheap and abundant.

Rick “show me your data” Denney

 

[mhardy6647]

I never knew that we needed speaker amplifiers to be capable of driving any possible load and not just, y'know, speakers.

There are some pretty sadistic loudspeakers out in the field, load-wise.

 

[voodooless]

It's also easy to argue that if you need/want hundreds of watts at home, your speakers are fundamentally flawed. Unless you think obesity is a sign of good health.

Ironically, in most cases, the most efficient speakers are the obese ones There is no one definition of "healthy" loudspeakers on this topic. Either way, it's a compromise, and you'll just have to pick the one that you want to live with.

 

[HalSF]

This discussion reminds me of a generally positive YouTube review of the inexpensive Fosi ZA3 Class D stereo amplifier I recently started using in my main system, by this charming man who calls himself A British Audiophile.

For the price, he says while praising the ZA3’s impeccable neutrality, “I’m not expecting to hear the little micro-details and subtle timbral inflections in the music” provided by “high-end” amplifiers. For no reason other than cost, independent of any measurement or the other components in a system.

This kind of subjective a priori assumption about an axiomatic relationship between amplifier price and the ability to faithfully present musical details and inflections seems like a brand of magical thinking that has been thoroughly discredited.

 

[kyuu]

Ironically, in most cases, the most efficient speakers are the obese ones

Yeah, this is one of the many things in audio where people's intuitive assumptions, in this case that larger speakers are always more difficult and/or require more power to drive, are exactly opposite to reality.

 

[AaronJ]

This discussion reminds me of a generally positive YouTube review of the inexpensive Fosi ZA3 Class D stereo amplifier I recently started using in my main system, by this charming man who calls himself A British Audiophile.

For the price, he says while praising the ZA3’s impeccable neutrality, “I’m not expecting to hear the little micro-details and subtle timbral inflections in the music” provided by “high-end” amplifiers. For no reason other than cost, independent of any measurement or the other components in a system.

This kind of subjective a priori assumption about an axiomatic relationship between amplifier price and the ability to faithfully present musical details and inflections seems like a brand of magical thinking that has been thoroughly discredited.

ABA is a wolf in sheep's clothing, targeting a different segment of viewers who view themselves as discerning audiophiles, but it's still the same subjective BS as anybody else.