ASR recommendations should take price into account, and shouldn't only be based on the subjective test.

[Geert]

Giving recommendations based on EQ'd results is the same as finding the best input and output voltage for every electronic review and present them in the best-case scenario.

So all I see here is: rather expensive speaker (for whatever reasons, but branding is one of them given the company), not too bad but not great, oh gets a 'recommended' status because it sounds ok after EQ?

I think EQ should not be considered for conclusion of the listening impressions.

+1. I've never seen a reviewer score a product expecting the customer to first the fix the design. I expect a review to judge a product on itself. If needed you can add a separate score on how speakers can be eq-ed. As the comments on the TuneTot's review demonstrated lots of people missed the "with eq" condition in the recommendation, and most people still use speakers without applying parametric eq.

 

[dshreter]

If you start taking price into the recommendations then implicitly you are considering value for money. If that’s the case, what on earth is the point of all the super high SINAD DACs that will sound identical to DACs at a lower price with high enough SINAD and they would never be recommended gear. That doesn’t seem like a win.

It seems like a lot of folks have sour grapes that a Wilson speaker came through with a recommendation. While it’s surprising it doesn’t mean the whole rubric should be tossed out. I think it’s just eating away at people that some Wilsons are enjoyable to listen to, which creates cognitive dissonance with what we “know” about how good speakers should measure.

I’m sticking with my KH 80s and R3s at home, but I have no beef with how the TaterTots were evaluated.

 

[FrantzM]

Well...
I believe the issue is semantics: "recommendation" is not really appropriate in the context of those reviews, IMO, but has come to be the term used. Based on what we know from Amir, if someone had $10,000 to spend on speakers only, i doubt Amir would recommend the Wilson over say the JBL 708 or the Revel 208 or Genelec or Neuman or Kali or ...
Based , however on his impressions from the speaker, after testing and then tasting it D) he found it acceptable, found it to perform adequately thus could be ... recommended ... Maybe "acceptable" would have been a better term.

I believe we are not yet at a point where one simgle metric can define speaker performance. The Preference Score for the JBL 308 is superior to that of the 708... No one who has heard both so far has come out and declare the 308 superior to the 708.. There are several other exemples ... The "Preference Score" is a good metric, not the definitive metric we tend or would like to make of it ... Same with SINAD or THD...

I have a bit more to say about this and will likely post it on the Wilson thread (Wilson Audio on ASR ?/What are the odds'?

Peace.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Unlike other AV sites ASR is not for those who don't appreciate the value of EQ for speaker performance, which is "most people." That's a positive, not a negative. @amirm is a strong advocate of EQ whereas other AV sites downplay EQ or totally ignore it. The more ASR continues to focus on the value of EQ the more people will come to appreciate the value of ASR.

 

[watchnerd]

If you start taking price into the recommendations then implicitly you are considering value for money. If that’s the case, what on earth is the point of all the super high SINAD DACs that will sound identical to DACs at a lower price with high enough SINAD and they would never be recommended gear. That doesn’t seem like a win.

What's the point on obsessing about ultra high SINAD DACs, regardless of price?

Transparency in DACs has been a solved problem for well over a decade.

I just got a Schiit Modius, which measures better than my RME ADI-2 Pro (V1). Can I hear a difference? Nope.

 

[watchnerd]

It seems like a lot of folks have sour grapes that a Wilson speaker came through with a recommendation. While it’s surprising it doesn’t mean the whole rubric should be tossed out. I think it’s just eating away at people that some Wilsons are enjoyable to listen to, which creates cognitive dissonance with what we “know” about how good speakers should measure.

This is where the ASR community seems ignorant and knee jerk.

It's a weird kind of toxic fundamentalism with regard to speaker design.

 

[Sancus]

As the comments on the TuneTot's review demonstrated lots of people missed the "with eq" condition in the recommendation, and most people still use speakers without applying parametric eq.

It's been very random which speakers are allowed to get recommendations via EQ and which not, as well. At least the headphone reviews are consistent about this.

 

[Voo]

whats so hard to understand...they dont measure well but he likes the sound. lets not fool ourselves into thinking science can explain it all.

 

[watchnerd]

whats so hard to understand...they dont measure well but he likes the sound. lets not fool ourselves into thinking science can explain it all.

I'm totally comfortable with that.

My LPs and reel to reel don't measure very well, either, but I like the sound.

It's okay to like something that doesn't measure well.

 

[Geert]

whats so hard to understand...they dont measure well but he likes the sound.

After eq....

 

[Frgirard]

This forum is based on the audio engineering or the audio cooking?
For the audio engineering this Wilson is a BS regarding the price of a kh420, psi audio a25 and blabla...
For the audio cooking, each is free to love.

May be the audio hobby is a rich man's sport where 10E3$ is considered a tip. Money and good sense never make good company.

 

[sword]

It's Amir's website. He, and he alone, should determine the recommendation criteria IMO.

But is their a criteria? It seems uneven.

 

[garbz]

The problem with being recommendations on price is it assumes the reader is price conscious. Some are, others aren't.
The problem with objective performance is it assumes the reader is only interested in objective performance. Most people aren't, and Genelecs could come with free sex and I still wouldn't want something that ugly in my house.

The problem with basing your purchasing decision on an amir recommendation is that it assumes you are in fact amir. I think we can all agree that only applies to one person reading this forum.

Honestly getting upset about a recommendation or even worse basing your purchasing decision on one in a review full of objective information is just stupid.

Tip for a better life: don't read the conclusion and form your own opinion based on the data provided. If on the other hand you're interested in one person's thoughts, then read the conclusion.