ASR Getting Into Measuring Headphones!

[amirm]

think the proper control is listening to randomized EQ (blinded) with similar parameters instead of comparing to no EQ. I wonder if anybody has done that?

Oh Sean Olive has definitely done that. The one catch is that people can tell by feel which headphone is which so totally blind test is not possible. Sean's solution was to take one headphone and impose on it the frequency response of different headphones. Then they can electrically change the response and determine preference. Matching of the "virtual headphone" to the real thing was better than 85% from what I recall but some degree of accuracy is lost.

 

[amirm]

Interesting! I can’t wait for focal, Hifiman sennheiser etc. getting measured! As the smear is soft is it possible to get some in ear or custom in ear measured with say a CIEM made for the supplied “ear”?

In theory yes but how one goes about getting them one to do this is not clear. I know I won't be loaning mine to them.

 

[beagleman]

Given the large tonal difference EQ makes, I find the possibility of placebo quite small relative to other changes one may make.

My test is to have wife or daughter bypass EQ and without me seeing if bypassed or not.

Then to switch back and forth not knowing which is which.,

 

[BusDriver]

Just because I'm feeling like chatting...
Placebo isn't what I believe you meant here. A placebo effect is an actual change in experience.
Like taking a sugar pill that you think is Tylenol and your headache goes away.
Confirmation Bias is likely what you meant. Which is a perceived change that actually is not there.
Such as hearing more bass because someone told you they turned the bass up but in fact they did not actually adjust anything.
Placebo is real, confirmation bias is not.

A placebo effect is an actual change in experience, yes, but it's a change in experience to a cause that's not there, thus it is also perceived change that is not there. In this case I'm treating the EQ change as an experimental condition, thus the actual effect would be the different between Harman EQ to randomized EQ, and the placebo would be the perceive improvement in sound due to simply adjusting the EQ (the effect that I'm interested in). It is also confirmation bias in this case, as we have a bias to believe that EQ'ing to the target would improve our enjoyment.

 

[sweetchaos]

We're ready...

 

[LTig]

The main barrier was of course the cost. The capital investments in this effort have long gone the crazy land even when I purchased my Audio Precision analyzer let alone the Klippel speaker measurement system. I don't know when I am going to recoup those dollars. So investing even more did not at all seem logical. But I just decided to hell with it and proceed. Asked my wife what she thought and she could tell in my eyes there was not a "no" in what I was expecting from her.

Great news. Long live your wife, may she blessed!

 

[williamwally]

At first I wasn't keen on less time for speaker measurements. However I quickly came to the realization that Amirm measuring/EQ'ing headphones could easily lead to a relatively inexpensive 'benchmark' system. Which could not only be for fun, but also to use as a baseline to compare the tonal qualities of loudspeakers.
So I'm all in now!

 

[spacevector]

Congrats on the new toy, amir!
When I saw the GRAS device, for some reason I thought of Fleshlight™ (google if you wish but at your own risk - NSFW).

 

[Biblob]

Congratulations Amir. I hope it will bring much good for the community.
Do you have a planning in mind how you will divide up your measurements of electronics, speakers and headphones?

 

[GGekko]

Fantastic news !

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

Would be great to see some measurements with varying sealing conditions. There are not that many sources sharing such information.
Be aware that the ear and cheeck simulator does significantly overestimate the quality of seal because of its flat and even contact surface! You could implement a standard measurement for obstacale frames to address this issue. Maybe even some thicker hair?

For those who think sealing does not matter in practice, see my personal K371 experience:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-harman-target-curve.17914/page-3#post-587304

The danger with that is I might end up shaving the beard and slicing sub optimal bits of ear off in pursuit of better measurements

 

[Berwhale]

@amirm Thank you, this enouraged me to make another modest donation (which was overdue anyway). Good luck with the headphone testing.

 

[Cahudson42]

A challenge..!

How do you prioritize which ones you measure in what order?

My suggestions: First, those most likely to be considered Now by ASR members: HD560s, HE 5Xx, Deva., Sundara, Ananda, Under $1k..

Perhaps a couple $5k-type for comparison up front.

But, right now , No ' historical' unbtainium types. (HE6 etc.). Later, perhaps. HP up to $1k..to start for now..

Cross select the current dynamic, planar offerings. Electrostatics, again later.

As well as 'garage shop' (Verum?) stuff. Later.

Eagerly anticipating these new reviews!

 

[ROOSKIE]

A placebo effect is an actual change in experience, yes, but it's a change in experience to a cause that's not there, thus it is also perceived change that is not there. In this case I'm treating the EQ change as an experimental condition, thus the actual effect would be the different between Harman EQ to randomized EQ, and the placebo would be the perceive improvement in sound due to simply adjusting the EQ (the effect that I'm interested in). It is also confirmation bias in this case, as we have a bias to believe that EQ'ing to the target would improve our enjoyment.

Howdy. No. A placebo effect is NOT a change that is not there.
A Placebo effect is an actual change that is the result of something unknown at this point in time. It is however very real. Like no more sore throat, no more headache, no more anxiety, no more cancer - for real not just psychologically.
Confirmation Biases and placebo effect are completely 100% different.
Anyway off topic. So maybe do some research.
I just decided to point this out since this site is science based. Correct terms when possible is always good (and I have deff made mix-ups myself)
Deff we could start a diff thread and my apologies here for the tangent.
Congrats on the new ears. Looks super cool!!

 

[Zensō]

Fantastic!

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

Just because I'm feeling like chatting...
Placebo isn't what I believe you meant here. A placebo effect is an actual change in experience.
Like taking a sugar pill that you think is Tylenol and your headache goes away.
Confirmation Bias is likely what you meant. Which is a perceived change that actually is not there.
Such as hearing more bass because someone told you they turned the bass up but in fact they did not actually adjust anything.
Placebo Effect is real, confirmation bias is not.

Minor point of order, "placebo" and "placebo effect" are different. But as EQ most certainly does actually change the sound , lets assume the poster meant "placebo effect" when they said "placebo".

 

[BusDriver]

Howdy. No. A placebo effect is NOT a change that is not there.
A Placebo effect is an actual change that is the result of something unknown at this point in time. It is however very real. Like no more sore throat, no more headache, no more anxiety, no more cancer - for real not just psychologically.
Confirmation Biases and placebo effect are completely 100% different.
Anyway off topic. So maybe do some research.
I just decided to point this out since this site is science based. Correct terms when possible is always good (and I have deff made mix-ups myself)
Deff we could start a diff thread and my apologies here for the tangent.
Congrats on the new ears. Looks super cool!!

I do biological/medical research and placebo is not such an amazing thing that causes physiological changes. In fact, it's mostly short-lived, and most prominent in pain perception. It does not "cure" anything, least of all cancer. It makes you feel better at most, for a short while. A lot of alternative medicine like to prop up placebo effects as this panacea, while it is no such thing. In this case, you can say that the confirmation bias may have partially caused the placebo effect.

Edit: and yes, I mean to say placebo effect most of the time, placebo would just be the sugar pill like you mentioned, or the actual random EQ change. To be honest, using this term is not that appropriate in these cases, but oh well.

 

[Doodski]

What is the wait time at the moment for headphones sent to @amirm . If I sent mine in when could I expect the review. Is there a backlog for testing already?

 

[frogmeat69]

Looking forward to you getting things rolling, and will be more than happy to send along a pair or two for measurement if you are interested in any of my collection.
And hope to donate a few Shekels when I can to help you along this journey.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

You are going to be one busy man, just wow. You certainly are not letting a little pandemic slow you down. Good job.