ASR burning the wrong witches?

[DanielT]

I really do not know if cables can sound different. Some say they can hear it, others laugh at them.
Who am I to say what others can hear?
As to why I never used them, dunno?
I tried better cables a few years ago, but never really "heard" a difference...
I think my reasoning for even mentioning them was to point out that I never used them but still subjectively make decisions (partly), and don't wanna hear the sheeple ask if I can hear my cables, lifters and other ignorant responses.

But do not be sour, as I said: I'm just curious and I do not judge anyone. You get to believe, think and have what experiences you want. Of course.

Besides, it's not a question IF you can hear differences because you can. We have our ears to it, to hear differences. The question is only when? For me, I put this when with speakers, plus quite obvious , big differences in dB, for example, pressed loudness on an amplifier or not. But then we are talking about quite a lot dB. I think most people are able to spot that, for example, a blind test, loudness or not, that is.

Edit
For example, I can not hear the difference between:

What is this? No golden ears!

Got an idea last week. Connected a Blu-ray, Sony BDP-S570, and a CD- player Marantz CD5001 to the pre amp. It has line selectors. Went to the local flea market and managed to find duplicates, CDs. Exactly the same CDs, the same recording on the discs. Same master. Enter with the discs in the...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[goat76]

Oh no, Happier Than Ever is entirely intentional. That's not bad recording technique, that's an artistic choice, probably by Finneas and Billie.

That depends and will be hard to figure out without listening to how the mix sounded before it was mastered. Maybe MrOtto would find it much more acceptable sounding without the added distortion that happened due to the extreme limitation made to the mastered release.

The limitation of the songs at the mastering stage can hardly be seen as an artistic choice, the mix wasn't that mashed when it left Finneas and Billie's home studio. The limitation that was made during mastering was more likely a commercial decision just to get the songs as loud as the competition.

 

[Katji]

But what if your wife can hear the difference while doing dishes in the kitchen and listening to her table top Bose radio? If she can clearly hear the veils lift, it has got to be real!

More confusion.
There was never any idea of hearing veils lifting, i.e. the sound of the veils as they move through air. The idea is the sound created by the loudspeakers became clearer, i.e. more accurate, as though there was a veil [i.e. something like fabric] covering them that was then removed. Before and after. Veil on, veil off.

 

[Katji]

Based on comments I have heard over the last year on ASR, it seems like some would rather fall on the sword, than consider a subjective opinion.

The concern is that the subjective opinion is then thought to be objective reality, physical* reality, and there is no distinction between them.

subjective and opinion is [individual and group] psychology/sociology, depending on sensory perception and experience/s. Influenced by physical and physiological changes and situations.

Physics* is not a matter of opinion. Not a matter of "I believe" / "I do not believe".

 

[Waxx]

The concern is that the subjective opinion is then thought to be objective reality, physical* reality, and there is no distinction between them.

subjective and opinion is [individual and group] psychology/sociology, depending on sensory perception and experience/s. Influenced by physical and physiological changes and situations.

Physics* is not a matter of opinion. Not a matter of "I believe" / "I do not believe".

The thing is, listening and enjoying music is subjective. The objective measurements and science are not the goal, they are the tool to maximise the subjective enjoyment of music (or HT if you're into that). This site is about objective measurements, i agree, but you always have to keep in mind that the ears are not objective, and that good sound is not the only factor for many, it's just an important one for most if not all. And even what is good sound is not fully objective, there are just some standards that fits most people, but not all.

 

[Sokel]

Physics* is not a matter of opinion. Not a matter of "I believe" / "I do not believe".

The next step of Physics (Quantum) is full of probabilities and guessing (until someone find out the new math needed)

(joke,if the emoji is not enough)

 

[Katji]

The next step of Physics (Quantum) is full of probabilities and guessing (until someone find out the new math needed)

(joke,if the emoji is not enough)

I thought someone might mention that, but I didn't want to get even more long-winded. Even without the quantum physics and the philosophy physics.

 

[Katji]

The thing is, listening and enjoying music is subjective. The objective measurements and science are not the goal, they are the tool to maximise the subjective enjoyment of music (or HT if you're into that). This site is about objective measurements, i agree, but you always have to keep in mind that the ears are not objective, and that good sound is not the only factor for many, it's just an important one for most if not all. And even what is good sound is not fully objective, there are just some standards that fits most people, but not all.

The two don't mix well, without reference to psychology and so on.
Music doesn't even come into it, even if it is the main purpose. (There is also field recordings and sound used in other applications.) Aside from that purpose, there is no music until it gets to the mind. What comes from the loudspeaker is sound. Audio vs. music.

 

[krabapple]

I really do not know if cables can sound different. Some say they can hear it, others laugh at them.
Who am I to say what others can hear?

I saw a perpetual motion machine yesterday.

Who are you to say I didn't?

 

[krabapple]

I wonder if it was the skill of the crew behind the mixing board?

that would be 'theirs'.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I'm totally on your side that you can never fully know how a pair of speakers will perform in your room before you actually hear them in that particular room. Still, I'm sure I will have a better idea of how they sound and if I think they will work in my room by actually listening to them at a demo.

That is the problem. You can't do what you think. Listening to speakers in any room but your own is a waste of time. Well except for the most basic of information. For example, does this 4 inch woofer 2 way have enough bass for me? Is it to shrill and sparkly? Once past big issues like that you can't use another room for listening at all. That is why ASR and Amir exist. You get a fairly good idea that the speakers are fine using Amir's testing info, but then you still have your own room problems.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Right. When you try one, let me know and you can post again in this thread.

Funny how the most vocal antagonists are the most determined to avoid having to back up the endless stream of claims. Is it that scary to think you might not be able to do it when you don't already know what's playing? Apparently.

Your schtick is getting old.

Actually, this poster is one of thousands of trolling posts on ASR. They seem to be of the same style. They come on this site that is all about measurements. Claim measurements don't mean much if anything. Claim they don't ever pay attention to measurements, don't want to and never will. BUT, they are posting on ASR! So after many, many pages of back and forth, they finally get told "No more". I can see it coming in the first 10 posts. I have an uncanny ability to sniff those guys out. ASR ALWAYS give them lots of time and many posts to at least carry on a debate. They do not want to other than to throw rocks at "measurement people". Never doing anything more difficult than sitting at a keyboard in their mothers basement trolling ASR. ASR must be on an audiophile list somewhere on "where to troll for fun". I have to say our mods are VERY lenient and allow them to continue for quite awhile before stepping in. No one can say that ASR does not allow you to give your opinion and engage in debate. You guys are very nice and bend over backwards to allow them to prove they are NOT trolls. I on the other hand, would be like the old executioners in the dark ages. One infraction and then off with their heads! But, then, no one ever accused me of being Mother Theresa!

 

[krabapple]

Hydrogenaudio enforces a Terms of Service ban on subjectivist 'but I hear it' claptrap. Such posts are promptly binned by moderators (not deleted -- just moved to a 'binned' section). It seems to work well. The S/N there is correspondingly very high for an audio forum.

Some of its members are here too.

 

[Newman]

Actually, this poster is one of thousands of trolling posts on ASR. They seem to be of the same style. They come on this site that is all about measurements. Claim measurements don't mean much if anything. Claim they don't ever pay attention to measurements, don't want to and never will. BUT, they are posting on ASR! So after many, many pages of back and forth, they finally get told "No more". I can see it coming in the first 10 posts. I have an uncanny ability to sniff those guys out. ASR ALWAYS give them lots of time and many posts to at least carry on a debate. They do not want to other than to throw rocks at "measurement people". Never doing anything more difficult than sitting at a keyboard in their mothers basement trolling ASR. ASR must be on an audiophile list somewhere on "where to troll for fun". I have to say our mods are VERY lenient and allow them to continue for quite awhile before stepping in. No one can say that ASR does not allow you to give your opinion and engage in debate. You guys are very nice and bend over backwards to allow them to prove they are NOT trolls. I on the other hand, would be like the old executioners in the dark ages. One infraction and then off with their heads! But, then, no one ever accused me of being Mother Theresa!

Yes, yes, and yes.

Just one thing though. The mods absolutely cannot read all the postings and discussions on ASR. It is not realistic. So they totally rely on reports. Are you using your “uncanny sniffing trolls out” ability to report them “in the first 10 posts”? If not, then you are contributing to the over-tolerance problem.

cheers

 

[goat76]

That is the problem. You can't do what you think. Listening to speakers in any room but your own is a waste of time. Well except for the most basic of information. For example, does this 4 inch woofer 2 way have enough bass for me? Is it to shrill and sparkly? Once past big issues like that you can't use another room for listening at all. That is why ASR and Amir exist. You get a fairly good idea that the speakers are fine using Amir's testing info, but then you still have your own room problems.

I don't know about you, but I get a much better idea of the speaker's characteristics, and a better idea if they will work in my listening room by actually listening to them instead of just reading the measurements. By looking at the measurements, I can get a fairly good idea if the speakers have any particular flaws, and by reading the specs I can get a fairly good idea if they will suit my listening environment size-wise and so on, but nothing beats actually listening to the speakers even if that's done in another room than mine.

Just some examples. Have you never heard big speakers sounding way smaller than you thought, have you never looked at the specification of a speaker that seemed bass-shy but got another impression by listening to them? I could go on but I think you got the idea.
By actually listening to the speakers and by the fact that you know the flaws of your listening room, it's fairly easy to get an idea of how and if they will work in your room. But to be 100% sure you must, of course, hear the speakers at your own place.

 

[DanielT]

That is the problem. You can't do what you think. Listening to speakers in any room but your own is a waste of time. Well except for the most basic of information. For example, does this 4 inch woofer 2 way have enough bass for me? Is it to shrill and sparkly? Once past big issues like that you can't use another room for listening at all. That is why ASR and Amir exist. You get a fairly good idea that the speakers are fine using Amir's testing info, but then you still have your own room problems.

I don't know about you, but I get a much better idea of the speaker's characteristics, and a better idea if they will work in my listening room by actually listening to them instead of just reading the measurements. By looking at the measurements, I can get a fairly good idea if the speakers have any particular flaws, and by reading the specs I can get a fairly good idea if they will suit my listening environment size-wise and so on, but nothing beats actually listening to the speakers even if that's done in another room than mine.

Just some examples. Have you never heard big speakers sounding way smaller than you thought, have you never looked at the specification of a speaker that seemed bass-shy but got another impression by listening to them? I could go on but I think you got the idea.
By actually listening to the speakers and by the fact that you know the flaws of your listening room, it's fairly easy to get an idea of how and if they will work in your room. But to be 100% sure you must, of course, hear the speakers at your own place.

Who would buy, for example, electrostats or omni speakers without having listened to them? Who calculates the most optimal placement of speakers in the listening room, places them there, without then (out of curiosity) tries to move them around, angle the speakers in different ways? How far from the back wall is really the most optimal placement of a pair of dipole speakers, so it suits your listening taste, prefered sound and so on ...

Also, fortunately, not everyone likes the exact same thing. It would have been a boring world if that were the case. :

Which speakers gave you the *wow* factor?

Mine was the 8050, it was the first time i heard such perfect tonality (to my ears) was also impressed by Focal Solo6

audiosciencereview.com

 

[coonmanx]

 

[Spkrdctr]

Yes, yes, and yes.

Just one thing though. The mods absolutely cannot read all the postings and discussions on ASR. It is not realistic. So they totally rely on reports. Are you using your “uncanny sniffing trolls out” ability to report them “in the first 10 posts”? If not, then you are contributing to the over-tolerance problem.

cheers

Great reply. I have on occasion, but ASR as an entity wants to give everyone the doubt and let them hang themselves. So, reporting too early doesn't help. It is the nature of the beast. Since ASR is so wide ranging in what is allowed in discussions, you get the bad along with the good. It is hard to allow wide ranging often polarizing debate if you keep everyone on too tight of a leash. So, as always it is a matter of where you draw the line. Plus, that line is not a hard line, it moves around some in discussions too.

 

[techguypaul]

I saw a perpetual motion machine yesterday.

Who are you to say I didn't?

But it only works when you observe it.
The observer effect is fascinating.

 

[krabapple]

But it only works when you observe it.

Says who?

The observer effect is fascinating.

I guess. So is human imagination.