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Asking about DIY speakers, ohm, frequency, crossover, watt

jst

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If I want to make diy speakers, is it common to put subwoofer in it ? I use sony compo speakers the other day it has something like super woofer as they call it, but it sounds a bit like subwoofer. It's really good for watching movies/gaming nice low but not overpowering, it makes every sound effect sounds much more powerful with the low accompanying it.

That's why I'm interested in making diy speakers but with a subwoofer in it. But there is no crossover that includes subwoofer, most passive crossovers are 2-way and 3-way. And if I use 4 way, 1 tweeter, 1 middle (or full range) 4 inch, 1 woofer 4 inch, 1 subwoofer 4 inch, all 4 ohms, how should it be connected to maintain 4 ohm output ?

What's the usual frequency for each ? tweeter, mid, woofer, and sub ?

I have really funny speakers they don't have sound (or very low) if I play 50hz -90hz sound wave on youtube, it will have sound when I play 100hz. So they must have their low freq cut off under 100hz using god knows what and very precise. How do i do that ? (it's surround speakers)

And one more thing, about the watt of the whole speaker, if I use like 20 watt speaker each , is the output 4x20 since each of the speaker driver is 20 watt ?
 
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raistlin65

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Building your own speakers like you are thinking about requires quite a bit of engineering knowledge.

Better to start with DIY kits that have been engineered for the drivers to work well together with the crossover and the cabinet.

As for subwoofers, it's better to build them separately in their own enclosure with their own amplifier. There are also DIY kits for those.
 

mhardy6647

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... and/or take a look at one of the many, more or less technical books (remember those? Made of reprocessed, compressed tree fiber?) on DIY loudspeaker design and construction.

Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook is an oft-cited favorite for tyros. It's not my personal favorite, because it is more of a cookbook than a textbook. The most recent revision, I think (??), is still the 7th edition.
51daWsDwhkL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I like Ray Alden's books, since they teach a little about the math/physics as well as offer recipes.
I would suggest this one if it's still in print (FWIW).

51AlXwPPRPL._AC_UL600_SR600,600_.jpg


Also some good ones from, e.g., the late David Weems.

51XZLvywA0L._SX404_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


or... go for the gusto.


500-032_HR_0.default.jpg


;)
 

coonmanx

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Starting with a kit is a great idea. Either that or get some CV's with a 10 or 12 inch woofer...
 
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DVDdoug

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If I want to make diy speakers, is it common to put subwoofer in it ?
No. A subwoofer is an "extra" woofer that usually covers frequencies lower than your regular woofer. In a real theater (or some home theaters) the regular stereo/surround speakers handle all of the musical bass and the subwoofer just handles the "point one" Low Frequency Effects (booms & explosions).

In most home theaters with "small" stereo/surround speakers that can't put-out deep bass, ALL of the bass is routed through the sub. This is a special kind of active crossover that also includes a mixer to blend the bass from all channels. It's handled by the Audio/Video Receiver and it's called "bass management".

AVRs have amplifiers for the main speaker but the subwoofer output is line-level so you need an active (AKA "powered") subwoofer with a built-in amp, or if you have a passive sub you need a separate amp.

I use sony compo speakers the other day it has something like super woofer as they call it, but it sounds a bit like subwoofer. I
I don't know what that is... some sort of marketing term...

And if I use 4 way, 1 tweeter, 1 middle (or full range) 4 inch, 1 woofer 4 inch, 1 subwoofer 4 inch, all 4 ohms, how should it be connected to maintain 4 ohm output ?
4-inches is barely a "woofer" can certainly not a subwoofer... ;)

You can have a 4-way speaker but you'd probably have to build your own crossover. My rear speakers are old (from the 1970's I think) 5-way speakers with a 15-inch woofer. (Somebody gave them to me!).

What's the usual frequency for each ? tweeter, mid, woofer, and sub ?
That depends on the driver specs, and then it's up to the designer.

I have really funny speakers they don't have sound (or very low) if I play 50hz -90hz sound wave on youtube, it will have sound when I play 100hz. So they must have their low freq cut off under 100hz using god knows what and very precise.
You need bigger woofers! And possibly more amplifier power. Our ears aren't as sensitive at low & high frequencies and bass just generally needs more power.

And one more thing, about the watt of the whole speaker, if I use like 20 watt speaker each , is the output 4x20 since each of the speaker driver is 20 watt ?
No. The woofer gets most of the power so the woofer is the most important. A "20W" woofer is designed to handle the bass-part of a regular audio signal hitting 20W on the peaks and a "20W" tweeter is designed to handle the high-frequency part of that same 20W-peak signal. The woofer can't handle constant 20W test-tones and the tweeter can more-easily burn-out with test-tones...

It would be silly to make a 4-way speaker with two 4-inch "woofers". You can make a 2-way or 3-way with both woofers in parallel, but you need two 8-Ohm speakers to get 4-Ohms in parallel.

You might want to get a speaker building book. Of course there is tons of information on the Internet but sometimes a book is easier to get started with and "more organized". There is also software for designing the cabinet & predicting/optimizing bass response. I use I've used WinISD (FREEE!) You do need the Thiele/Small parameters for your woofer.

if I play 50hz -90hz sound wave on youtube,
With Audacity you can generate your own test-tones or white noise or pink noise. Just be careful with those high-power tests, especially high frequencies. You can damage the tweeter with high frequency tones that don't sound that loud, or that you can't hear because they are above your hearing range of above what the tweeter can reproduce. And of course you can damage a tweeter with low frequencies if you don't have a crossover (or at least a series "bass blocking" capacitor).
 
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jst

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Ok thanks for all the advice, actually this is the second time I asked something like this and ALL of you said more or less the same thing. So I guess I have to think twice lol.

The thought of adding sub in the same box is because this compo speakers that I have can produce low sound without added standalone subwoofer which tend to be overpowering. So I thought I could add sub in the same box to copy that sound lol.

There are actually 1-way crossover for each, like these for example :
this one for tweeter, and the next to it for mid (it says 800-6000)
Screenshot_486.jpg Screenshot_488.jpg

and for sub
Screenshot_487.jpg

If I use all 4ohm spkrs, then I can connect tweeter and mid in series, get 8 ohm, connect woofer and sub in series and get another 8 ohm , then both of them connected in parallel and get 4 ohm, is that right and will it work ?

Or I can use 3 way crossover that has high low mid (tweeter, mid, woofer) , I wonder what the output impedance will be, then either series or parallel it with subwoofer.

Subwoofer 4.5 inch :
Screenshot_489.jpg
I pick 4 inch because I use Aiyima A07 amp and it only output less than 1 watt of power to speaker and even though it's rated 300w x2 with 48v7.5A, and I use only 32v5a adapter, I tried surround speaker with only 35 watt (4 inch size) with it and it survived and sound good. So I guess 4 inch is ok to use.
 

Zek

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If I use all 4ohm spkrs, then I can connect tweeter and mid in series, get 8 ohm, connect woofer and sub in series and get another 8 ohm , then both of them connected in parallel and get 4 ohm, is that right and will it work ?
No, you can't connect tweeter and mid in series because there must be crossover between them, also woofer and sub.
If you intend to make a speaker with tweeter, midrange, bass and sub, then you have to have a 4-way crossover in one box.

Unless you have the necessary speaker measurement equipment and appropriate crossover calculation programs, it is not possible to make a serious speaker.
 
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jst

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No, you can't connect tweeter and mid in series because there must be crossover between them, also woofer and sub.
If you intend to make a speaker with tweeter, midrange, bass and sub, then you have to have a 4-way crossover in one box.

Unless you have the necessary speaker measurement equipment and appropriate crossover calculation programs, it is not possible to make a serious speaker.
How if I use an ACTIVE 4-way crossover ? like the one for car audio (I think there's also diy kit/manufactured), can even change frequency at any time. Aiyima A07 use very low watt from the wall like 4 watt, if I have 4 Aiyima A07 amps for powering each way then it's simpler since each speaker can be standalone.

Car tweeters don't need box, and the door speaker usually use fullrange ? so each speaker will be boxed individually and can be put closer to my desk since it will be smaller despite being in many pieces, kinda tedious though, but how come car stereo can have speaker pieces all over the place and still have good even great sound. Does the person setting it up also need to measure stuffs ?

Oh and how a 3-way crossover can connect 3 speakers and have the same impedance ?
 

DanielT

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My tip. Depending on the starting point. How much knowledge and experience do you have of, for example, carpentry yourself, so try to build something really cheap, easy to begin with. Just to get a feel for it all. Test speakers. DIY speakers are perhaps something that you will really love and then you move on with more advanced DIY designs, as you learn. Or you may find that it is not for you.

Good luck! :)

Edit
Speaking of ready-made DIY kits.

Amir has tested some DIY kit speakers. I do not know if it was still possible to order the kits, but you can check it out if any of them seem to be of interest to you.

Troels. You might get some ideas here:


Many people who are now do DIY speakers have skipped passive crossovers. That since, among other things ,due to that it is expensive with good components for such.

You should be careful with rules of thumb, but for subwoofers, the bigger the better (usually). Good ability to pump air, x-max at least 10 mm, 19 mm playwood, properly braced. So I know that some DIY (me too) fond/used and I think it turned out well in any case.
But I'm not that picky, so it depends on what level you want to put it on. I remember when I built them, I asked a knowledgeable acoustician if double sand-filled walls would be good. Only Hifi stupid was his answer. Better to brace up properly and 19 mm playwood was his answer. 19 mm playwood fit in my case, that is.It was about my construction. It would have been sad to use a lot of sand unnecessarily. With that, I just wanted to say that dedicated DIY speaker forums are great.:)

Here you can test:


Speaker element test:


And so on a DIY forum, for example, it is discussed why this is considered one of the better now in its price range:


So dedicated DIY forums are good. :) At a DIY speaker forum, there will be talk about, for example, using one or the other. Cut out and put between the speaker element and the subwoffer baffle this ... see pictures.
 

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jst

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Thanks for the tips, about the box, there's a custom speaker box maker service here that I can use, that's why I pick small speakers with only 4 inch so it wont be too expensive, on top of because my amp is only low watt, but I hesitate now. I thought I could just throw in stuffs hoping it sounds good, but since everyone said more or less the same thing then, damn speakers aren't made like that lol. I wonder why though. I think I'll start reading one of these days, or until I have the urge again.

Sadly importing kits is too expensive on the shipping cost.
 

DanielT

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Building a pair of DIY speakers that sound is very simple. To build a pair of DIY speakers that sound good / ok clearly more difficult. To build DIY speakers that sound really top notch, thats a completely different ball game (at least if you construct them yourself).But it does not matter as long as you have fun and find it rewarding.:)

Do you have thoughts on where to order parts, kits and so on. Register for at an active DIY speaker forum in your country. They will hopefully help you. But first, it's probably not so bad udda to read on the basics of how speakers work.

I only know the basics myself and I certainly do not build my own constructed which I think will be top class. These are mostly simpler subwoofers, some destop speakers with broadband elements. It is a matter of realizing your limitations. Do you want to get better at this just like everything else. Study and practice. And its not so stupid to have a knowledgeable teacher.:)
 
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jst

jst

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Building a pair of DIY speakers that sound is very simple. To build a pair of DIY speakers that sound good / ok clearly more difficult. To build DIY speakers that sound really top notch, thats a completely different ball game (at least if you construct them yourself).But it does not matter as long as you have fun and find it rewarding.:)

Do you have thoughts on where to order parts, kits and so on. Register for at an active DIY speaker forum in your country. They will hopefully help you. But first, it's probably not so bad udda to read on the basics of how speakers work.

I only know the basics myself and I certainly do not build my own constructed which I think will be top class. These are mostly simpler subwoofers, some destop speakers with broadband elements. It is a matter of realizing your limitations. Do you want to get better at this just like everything else. Study and practice. And its not so stupid to have a knowledgeable teacher.:)
I think that's a good idea, to join local community. Since whatever part they mention I can get it much more easily since it's local.

I don't like overpowering bass so I hardly use my wharfedale sw250, and lately I can;t even use it at all because Aiyima A07 doesnt hv subwf out. Having dac output to wharfedale sw250 will distort it, but pre-out from my CA 640a is good. I think the output from dac is too loud to be inputted to sub.

I'll bury this idea for now, kinda interested in high sensitivity fullrange speaker now, it doesn't seem to need anything, just box. hahah

Thanks for the advice though, I think I have to read speaker building book first before attempting to make one.
 

DanielT

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because Aiyima A07 doesnt hv subwf out.
No sub out? Plug one like this into the amplifier's speaker outputs (together with the other speaker cables) so you can drive with your full-range speakers and sub together with Aiyima.


What type of power supply do you have to your Aiyima A07?

Tips if you are DIY for the first time. Small speakers with this. Very affordable. Cheap and really good. A killer. :)

"Taking in account the high technical performance and very low cost, TC9FD18-08, in my opinion, is just incredible speaker!"


Edit:
It will work with a converter but then if you are going to get really good sound then you should think of other solutions . It is a favorite topic of this forum integration sub - full range speakers. There are many threads about it.

You will at least get a low level signal for your sub with a converter.:)
 

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jst

jst

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No sub out? Plug one like this into the amplifier's speaker outputs (together with the other speaker cables) so you can drive with your full-range speakers and sub together with Aiyima.
Will that fix the distorted bass ? I use Topping D10s=> directly to WharfedaleSW250 subwoofer (using splitter one to amp, one to sub) and the bass is so distorted almost sound like its broken. Seems like the output from topping d10s is too high for the sub. So Hi-Low will lower the input ? Reading the item description it sounds like it does. Thanks I'll try to get one later on.

-edit-
so the high to low here takes the output from amp out to speaker. Not from dac.


What type of power supply do you have to your Aiyima A07?

Tips if you are DIY for the first time. Small speakers with this. Very affordable. Cheap and really good. A killer. :)

"Taking in account the high technical performance and very low cost, TC9FD18-08, in my opinion, is just incredible speaker!"
I have 2 adapters , one 32v5A and the other one 48v5A, all black bricks.

That speaker is available here, around 55usd per pair, sensitivity is kinda low but maybe because it's small.
 
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DanielT

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Nop, it will not fix the distorted bass if there is something wrong with the Subwoofer.

Has your subwoofer ever worked properly? If yes:

What hifi solution did you have when it worked? What source did you use to feed the subwoofer amp input?
Did it get bad when you used the same source or after you changed something, new source for signal into sub that is?

Those power supplies you have are perfectly ok in effect for your Aiyima A07 I mostly wondered if you had someone with very little effect.:)

Here's a thread about it, power supply to;


Edit:

It mostly looks like a mess on what I drew but I hope you see, attached picture, how to do with such a converter.:)
The level of the output of the converter must match what level the subwoofer input should have. Usually standardized so that it matches between different devices :) But as you can see from the picture, you can change the gain on the converter. It does not need a power supply, it is passive.

Edit 2
That it is not an optimal solution is partly due to you letting the signal pass a power amplifier and then being fed into a new power amplifier. Distortion is not "blurred" out in the chain it is added, step by step. Best to change and split signal in the digital world. It may be for sometime in the future for you. :) . In addition, as usual, the question is when distortion becomes audible.
+ Subwoofer and EQ are a happily married couple. With their children , HP -LP filter.
 

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jst

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I think I'll make a new thread for this subwoofer problem, I'm very curious now :p
 
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