ASIO, WASAPI, Direct Sound... is there any difference in sound quality?

[scott wurcer]

On GNU/Linux or *BSD, people use the generic USB audio driver without any problem, any reason people don't on Windows? Because that tinkering looks a bit useless from afar; unless you can really hear the resampling at work, which seems a bit dubious.

What do you mean by resampling in this context. I'm usually happy to see 24/96 actually be 24/96. I've lost count of how many times folks have sent me files where all 8 LSB's were 0 (i.e 16 bit) or brick walled at 22.05k or 24k or both.

 

[Vincent Kars]

any reason people don't on Windows?

Maybe because UAC2 is available on Linux and OSX from 2010 on and we had to wait until april 2017 for Microsoft to add a UAC2 driver to Win.

 

[q3cpma]

Maybe because UAC2 is available on Linux and OSX from 2010 on and we had to wait until april 2017 for Microsoft to add a UAC2 driver to Win.

Didn't know this took so much time.

 

[q3cpma]

What do you mean by resampling in this context. I'm usually happy to see 24/96 actually be 24/96. I've lost count of how many times folks have sent me files where all 8 LSB's were 0 (i.e 16 bit) or brick walled at 22.05k or 24k or both.

Well, talking about stuff like this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...indows-resampling-not-actually-that-bad.9092/. Resampling in the audio mixer when you send it a signal with a format different from what the device is configured to receive at that moment; but it looks more like a problem with digital clipping or aliasing.

 

[PolkFan]

Maybe because UAC2 is available on Linux and OSX from 2010 on and we had to wait until april 2017 for Microsoft to add a UAC2 driver to Win.

Gotta love Microsoft making improvements in micro steps

 

[Vincent Kars]

They even added FLAC support to Win10

 

[Pluto]

Seeing as we're talking about this kind of thing I did a little experiment using a Topping DX7s (a USB audio 2.0 device). I had assumed, hitherto, in the Windows 10 world, that I could get this device to work properly without having to install the driver supplied by Topping/Thesycon. However, without that driver the system seems not to recognise the DAC for what it is, treating it as some arbitrary unknown USB device.

My understanding of how I thought the world of Windows 10 and USB audio 2.0 was supposed to work was that a DAC supporting this standard would be recognised and function fully (DSD notwithstanding) with Windows 10 'out of the box'.

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[maverickronin]

Seeing as we're talking about this kind of thing I did a little experiment using a Topping DX7s (a USB audio 2.0 device). I had assumed, hitherto, in the Windows 10 world, that I could get this device to work properly without having to install the driver supplied by Topping/Thesycon. However, without that driver the system seems not to recognise the DAC for what it is, treating it as some arbitrary unknown USB device.

My understanding of how I thought the world of Windows 10 and USB audio 2.0 was supposed to work was that a DAC supporting this standard would be recognised and function fully (DSD notwithstanding) with Windows 10 'out of the box'.

Can anyone enlighten me?

That should work if you're on 1703 or newer, but the UAC2 standard doesn't seem to be as standard as 1...

 

[Pluto]

That should work if you're on 1703 or newer

1909

 

[maverickronin]

1909

Not sure then. 1703 was when MS added the UAC2 driver.

 

[maty]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-wasapi-and-music-players-foobar-jriver.7412/

 

[Vincent Kars]

What TheSyscon did was supplying a UAC2 driver.
Hence one expect all UAC2 compliant DACs to works with the native Win driver as well

Is the Win driver installed?
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/usb-2-0-audio-drivers
Are both installed (theSycon + Win)?

A blunt one is deinstalling all USB audio drivers and reboot
Make a restore point first!

 

[Pluto]

one expect all UAC2 compliant DACs to works with the native Win driver as well

Is the Win driver installed?

Yes. AFAIK, such drivers are part of the Windows 10 installation and drivers (USBAudio2.sys and the like) described as "USB Audio Class 2.0 Driver" exist on the system.

Are both installed (theSycon + Win)?

Yes. However, my understanding was that – under Windows 10 with its inbuilt USB Audio 2.0 support – the theSycon driver should be unnecessary. But, as I explained earlier, without the latter the system only sees some arbitrary, unknown USB device. With it, everything snaps into place.

A blunt one is deinstalling all USB audio drivers and reboot

You must be joking! I did say that this was just an experiment in the interests of greater understanding, not some quest for the holy grail

 

[maverickronin]

You must be joking! I did say that this was just an experiment in the interests of greater understanding, not some quest for the holy grail

If you want to travel down the thorny path of driver troubleshooting there's also uninstalling from device manager, unplugging the usb device, rebooting, and then plugging it back into a different root port, which may not be possible if you're on a small laptop.

 

[Pluto]

Who said I'm on a laptop? Where did you get that from? But that's irrelevant. This whole thing is just a curiosity given that I have too much time on my hands at the moment, but I'm not that curious so as to wreck a working installation

 

[maverickronin]

Who said I'm on a laptop? Where did you get that from?

I was just mentioning it since it's a wall I've run up against before.

 

[flaviowolff]

for those who are able to interpret all the measurements: is there any audible degradation by using directsound vs. wasapi exclusive, all else being equal (same player, no resampling by directsound, etc)?

 

[bennetng]

for those who are able to interpret all the measurements: is there any audible degradation by using directsound vs. wasapi exclusive, all else being equal (same player, no resampling by directsound, etc)?

Try the files here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...y-of-software-volume-control.5922/post-172865

1. Which player do you use?

2. Does WASAPI exclusive sound different from DirectSound when using 100% volume?

3. Does the volume control behave differently in WASAPI exclusive vs DirectSound, when you decrease the volume?

 

[Magnifico]

Foorbar2000 is not the one for everyone but when people ask how to play files.....it is a definite advise for any of them.
With latest changes made and updated plugins even DSD is not a challenge anymore.
Though....who needs dsd?
Flac 16/48 + 24/96 is playable on any machine today....only the final quality may be relevant.

Writing this I enjoy everyday music with my setup remembering why I payed a few bucks this time.....Hope you guys enjoy your music as much as I do right now....

 

[Pluto]

for those who are able to interpret all the measurements: is there any audible degradation by using directsound vs. wasapi exclusive, all else being equal (same player, no resampling by directsound, etc)?

I believe you are missing a key point here. DirectSound is perfectly capable of bit perfect playback if all the following conditions are satisfied –

1. That the system sampling rate matches that of the of audio being played. This bypasses the need for Windows to perform any undesirable sampling rate conversion
2. That there are no other demands on the Windows audio system. This will cause your audio and the disturber to be mixed together
3. That something prevents any further demands on the Windows audio system throughout the time that the system is being used for 'serious' audio.

WASAPI is not, fundamentally, some system that causes Windows audio to sound ‘different’ (it has no way to do so). It is merely a means of ensuring that the above conditions are satisfied on a continuing basis. If affords a relatively simple means for an audio application to specify

1. the sampling rate (etc.) it wants
2. to lock the audio system out to other users
3. to ensure the above at your playback application's pleasure

It's interesting to note that, largely for reasons of flexibility, ASIO does not generally offer the exclusivity that guards the audio system from interference from would-be disturbers. If, for whatever reason, you have to use ASIO, a useful workaround for this limitation is to ensure that your DAC (or whatever) is not the default audio device. If your DAC (or whatever) is not the default device then it must, by definition, be exclusive provided no other running app. is attempting to send audio to that device.