AsciLab speakers are about to launch

[DearSX]

How much can i trust this Tonality rating from Spinorama for the AsciLab speakers?
The fiber one's have

The preference score is not a precise measurement of quality. Within +/-1 you won't know which one sounds better. It's an indication of linearity and tonality, nothing you can base a decision to blindly choose speakers on I am afraid.

M

How much can i trust this Tonality rating from Spinorama for the AsciLab speakers?
The fiber one's have a better score.

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

View attachment 456413View attachment 456414

Maybe wait to see how Erin's measurements show up. Also maybe Amir will test the C6B with his equipment, but yeah interest scores. I think the F6B may be closer to target curve vs C6B over some frequencies.

 

[NTK]

How much can i trust this Tonality rating from Spinorama for the AsciLab speakers?
The fiber one's have a better score.

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

View attachment 456413View attachment 456414

Here is a look at the actual data that were used to derive the preference rating formula. I'll use 2 examples to illustrate the uncertainties in the model.

Example 1: The red vertical box indicates a predicted rating of about 5. The actual scores of the speakers with this predicted rating ranged from about 2 to 7.

Example 2: The horizontal dashed blue line indicates a measured score of about 4.3. The predicted ratings for speakers with this score ranged from about 3 to 5.6.

 

[Curvature]

Hmm...

If a loudspeaker hits some well-researched technical parameters, informed by all the branches of audio, including psychoacoustics, and that doesn't lead to a sound that most people would find satisfying, I would like to question those technical parameters and ask if they really are that "well-researched".

That's a spurious comment. The research has been discussed endlessly on this forum. The fact that there are open questions and no immediately perfect out of the box products does not cast doubt on the science.

Good design gets all the fundamentals correct. And the fundamentals point toward CD or something like it as the goal. An insignificant EQ tweak which some, not all, may find better is not a substantial criticism.

Ascilab has already proven they are world class. The approach is similar to what we see in the best examples of pro companies.

Personally, I'm very excited for the C6C and S6C. Reasonably sized speakers with excellent directivity down to the bass. As well as good looking, and competitive on price.

 

[Curvature]

@AsciLab Can you please show data regarding pair deviation? That's possibly one area where pro companies may do better, although I'm sure you have introduced controls.

 

[Curvature]

We have a very different approach and opinion on this.

As a speaker designer, since there is no way to manipulate subjective affect, the job is to define technical goals and then work to hit them. "Sounding good" is the product of good engineering based on fundamental science. The only area for disagreement is which technical goals are the most important, and how to deal with compromises, since the science has not fully solved the problem of speaker and room interaction.

 

[sigbergaudio]

As a speaker designer, since there is no way to manipulate subjective affect, the job is to define technical goals and then work to hit them. "Sounding good" is the product of good engineering based on fundamental science. The only area for disagreement is which technical goals are the most important, and how to deal with compromises, since the science has not fully solved the problem of speaker and room interaction.

But you claimed that a well designed speaker didn't sound good, it often sounded bright and harsh.

As a speaker designer, the desirable outcome for any speaker I design, is that it sounds good. If it measures well and also sounds good, great! If it measures well but doesn't sound good, then the outcome is not achieved. From my perspective it is then not a well designed speaker.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

But you claimed that a well designed speaker didn't sound good, it often sounded bright and harsh.

As a speaker designer, the desirable outcome for any speaker I design, is that it sounds good. If it measures well and also sounds good, great! If it measures well but doesn't sound good, then the outcome is not achieved. From my perspective it is then not a well designed speaker.

Do we have a list of speakers that measures well and sound bad? Just asking friendly not to start a war or something.

 

[TheHighContemplator]

This speaker is custom-made based on consumer requests. It features a combination of Bliesma tweeters and mid dome, with Purifi mids for the upper range with a Hypex plate amp, while the lower range is handled by three Seas L26 Roy drivers with a Hypex plate amp. The high and mid provides wide dispersion, and the low frequencies are managed with cardioid implementation to correct room response characteristics in the bass range.

This is basically my dream speaker. If you could, please PM me with the costs for a pair of these beauties.

 

[Mort]

Do we have a list of speakers that measures well and sound bad? Just asking friendly not to start a war or something.

Yeah I see this claim from time to time. I don't think anyone is implying that there are a long list of great measuring speakers, when used as intended, that sound really bad.

It's meant more narrowly. Usually 'measures' in this context refers to 'on axis frequency response'.

FR could be fine while other measurements might be off like directivity or compression.

Or it could be the wrong speaker for the room or musical style.

 

[muad]

The preference score is not a precise measurement of quality. Within +/-1 you won't know which one sounds better. It's an indication of linearity and tonality, nothing you can base a decision to blindly choose speakers on I am afraid.

Also at this level the score can change quite a bit with small improvements or variations in the measurements.

Once Erin's measurements are uploaded, I bet the score will exceed the F6Cs. They look brtter than the measurements that ascilabs uploaded.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

Been listening today via Tidal on a Wiim Pro Plus to a Denon x3800h, no subs, no DSP. They remind me of my Revel M106 to some extent, better bass extension (I still believe you'll want a subs.) As Erin mentioned in his review, compared to the Kef Q7 I had, the high end is more prominent and I like female vocals better.
We watched a couple shows last night, an episode of 1923 and Murder Bot. Dialogue is very good, even at low levels (-32db below reference) powered off a Denon x3800h intelligibility was solid. Running in a 4.1 setup, imaging (phantom center) was spot on. Need to get the subs locked in, but waiting on an IOM Ncore amp to show up before calibrating everything.

These are pretty remarkable, especially for the price. I wish I still had the Ascend Acoustics LX as I think those would be the only speakers under $2k that I've had that I might prefer over these.

Disregard all the Nintendo Switch 2 nonsense, kids have been having fun!

For context, I'm pushing 50 with 20 years in the military and known HF loss in one ear and varying degrees of tinnitus in both.

Can you please measure the woofer for me like in the picture below? Is it like 15cm or 6" ?

 

[muad]

Can you please measure the woofer for me like in the picture below? Is it like 15cm or 6" ?

View attachment 456446

 

[sigbergaudio]

Do we have a list of speakers that measures well and sound bad? Just asking friendly not to start a war or something.

That these type of speakers exist was not my claim.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

View attachment 456448

Thanks! I never can not seem to find those drawings from speaker manufactors on their website.

 

[Chaos01]

Also at this level the score can change quite a bit with small improvements or variations in the measurements.

Once Erin's measurements are uploaded, I bet the score will exceed the F6Cs. They look brtter than the measurements that ascilabs uploaded.

Score is 6.5 also.
But the C6B extends a bit deeper in bass and can Play louder than the F's.

@sigbergaudio taste and preferences vary from Person to Person. Objektiv Data Proof Performance does not. This discussion is worth a seperate thread.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Score is 6.5 also.
But the C6B extends a bit deeper in bass and can Play louder than the F's.

@sigbergaudio taste and preferences vary from Person to Person. Objektiv Data Proof Performance does not. This discussion is worth a seperate thread.

Yes, I'm sure there are threads about it already. Tastes and preferences don't vary as much as one might think, that's the whole basis of the preference score we get from the objective data in the measurements on this forum. If they did, "objective performance" wouldn't be a thing. We don't make speakers in order to look pretty in graphs. They're made to be listened to.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

Is this a Ascilab dealer?

ASCILAB, loudspeakers, Purité Audio retailer London.

ASCILAB A6B passive and active C6C cardioid BX8C active cardioid bass module, new measurement led active and passive designs available now at Purité Audio London. Perhaps the finest measuring loudspeakers available at any price

www.puriteaudio.co.uk

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes I am delighted to represent AsciLAB in the UK
Keith

 

[Luvchampagne]

This is basically my dream speaker. If you could, please PM me with the costs for a pair of these beauties.

They are breathtaking. My educated guess is $100k+. Custom, one off, lots of R&D, Built in DSP.

 

[Salt]

Yes I am delighted to represent AsciLAB in the UK
Keith

After that 'Great Britain' is sufficiently served , @AsciLab should think about EU: my idea tends to @Audiophonics (France), Thomann (Germany) or Sound Imports (Netherlands), though don't know if latter have a spot on manufactured speakers, but if it will help to fill a container ....