Is that a fact or an assumption? I mean, Ascilab are not taking pre-orders on their website, you can pay them directly only when they have something to ship to you, so at least for B2C this is not true. Do dealers have to prepay their orders?
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AsciLab speakers are about to launch
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Is that a fact or an assumption? I mean, Ascilab are not taking pre-orders on their website, you can pay them directly only when they have something to ship to you, so at least for B2C this is not true. Do dealers have to prepay their orders?
you are not correct. They are (/were) taking pre-orders for B2C clients like me --> C8C+BX8C
No not at all, I place an order, admittedly not of the same magnitude as Amir, AsciLab accurately state the situation, for example the delay in receiving some Purifi product and give me a wholly realistic delivery schedule.
Hopefully I make it clear to potential AsciLab customers that because of the fabulous reviews the company has been inundated.
Keith
Although true, the early-bird/new product launch is kind of an exception. Taking money for C6Bs they don't have, and then use that money to fuel R&D would be a different situation.
OP
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Bringing a new product to life requires a long time more than it requires a large amount of money. There is plenty of trial and error, but it doesn’t require countless samples the way mass production does. As one person pointed out, development has to be continuous—because it takes a long time for a product to be born.
For example, the recently announced C8C already had a completed prototype more than a year ago, but after repeated improvements, we are only now able to present the final, fully completed physical product.
Our agreement with Amir is still being discussed internally. It seems that a lot of speculation and misunderstandings are arising. I sincerely hope this situation stabilizes as soon as possible.
Even today, we are continuing production beyond regular working hours. We could offer many explanations, but for now, we are simply doing the best we can in the present.
For example, the recently announced C8C already had a completed prototype more than a year ago, but after repeated improvements, we are only now able to present the final, fully completed physical product.
Our agreement with Amir is still being discussed internally. It seems that a lot of speculation and misunderstandings are arising. I sincerely hope this situation stabilizes as soon as possible.
Even today, we are continuing production beyond regular working hours. We could offer many explanations, but for now, we are simply doing the best we can in the present.
good luck to the team!
Silver woofers…
Keith
Keith
I have to wonder (without any direct business experience in anything like this) how much the seemingly random tariff situation plays into this. It likely affects profit margins as well as material capability (Ascilab's suppliers may be outside USA, but are all the suppliers' suppliers immune to USA's tariff-du-jour unpredictabilities?).
At the retail level, at least, I've run into companies that won't sell to me AT ALL because I live in USA because they don't want to deal with customers' problems with customs.
At the retail level, at least, I've run into companies that won't sell to me AT ALL because I live in USA because they don't want to deal with customers' problems with customs.
phoenixdogfan
Major Contributor
They pretty much have four completed designs: F6b, C6b, A6b, and C8c. Why not just concentrate on making those for this year, normalizing production volume, mending fences with dealers, setting up servicing and repair centers in Europe and North America, and figuring out supply chain logistics. Undoubtedly, they should just backburner the rest of the designs until 2027.
Like a lot of small start ups done by technical whiz kids, this one lacks practical business savvy. Frankly, the products are too good to fail. but the guys need to get much farther down the learning curve. If they don't have a good business person, they should either hire one, or enlist the services of someone with experience in helping start-ups ramp up because that along with customer relations seem to be the areas presenting the greatest opportunities for improvement. Perhaps Times has availability?
Like a lot of small start ups done by technical whiz kids, this one lacks practical business savvy. Frankly, the products are too good to fail. but the guys need to get much farther down the learning curve. If they don't have a good business person, they should either hire one, or enlist the services of someone with experience in helping start-ups ramp up because that along with customer relations seem to be the areas presenting the greatest opportunities for improvement. Perhaps Times has availability?
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It has been a problem, but in complex ways. While we have freedom to price the products what we want, and with it, get more decent margins, I did not feel we could given that we had to already add 15% for tariff. Currently, the margin for these speakers is well below industry norm. This is why having an efficient process to sell them is so critical. I shouldn't have to hand hold every order with countless emails -- time that I could spend reviewing products. Original plan was for us to get large shipments and my brother who is excellent at "pack and ship," would send them out and i wouldn't have to get involved. Instead, this has become all my work, both in communicating with Asci and handling each and every customer from waitlist to final fulfillment.
But there is a more critical aspect. Ascilab as you all know, shows prices without tariff. In more than one occasion customer has scuffed at us overcharging them relative to their pricing. Yes, they have fine print saying tariff is not included but customer doesn't always see or read such things. For example, when we finally got our C6B shipment, I notified the interested parties. By morning, one had told sent me a message that we were overcharging and went and bought direct from Ascilab. After I explained the situation to him, he understood and wanted to revert his order back to us but was too complicated to do so.
This is an example of Asci not appreciating our situation. That is, the fact that they are a) selling direct and b) appearing to sell at even lower cost! Plenty of manufacturers sell products direct and through dealers. But it never has this discrepancy. If Asci thought this through, their website would detect the country of the visitor and not show such prices, or if it does, add in the tariff. And of course, not add insult to injury by taking and fulfilling orders.
As a related aside, our latest conflict arose from someone buying an F6B last week from them direct while as you all know, we still don't have our shipment. I reached out to my contact and he found out that their website still happily sold to US customers!!! He apologized but stuff like this must not happen. And it is an indication of core problem here: that product shortage is one thing, but making decisions that make things worse, is another.
I have no confidence sitting here that Ascilab truly understands the pain points we have. They don't listen and ask questions. They assume and run off with their own answers.
Their latest answer to me on this front was that they would reduce the percentage of what they sell direct to less than what they sell to dealers. This is the first I heard about any such allocation. Second, any such allocation to themselves when we have received hardly any products in 7 months, is an insult. I have to also think how bad the ratio was prior to me raising my voice.
The appearance of the whole situation is that there has been no fair process for allocation of products and that first priority was their own direct sales and by far. They enjoy better margins this way so they went this way. If this is wrong, then they better demonstrate why as I have evidence right in front of me this week when they had stock and I am told to go pound sand.
Net, net it is all about fundamentals. Bring your dealers into planning, strategy and delivery. Don't go announcing an early bird special for C8C and post it here for us and customers to read for the first time. And then have to backtrack to figure out what it means to sell the same through dealers. They go ask for prepayment for product which in turn pushed me into uncomfortable situation of forcing our customers to prepay. I never, ever want to take people's money before I have product to sell, especially when we are talking about Ascilab and their delivery history.
This is why I said this is not just a shortage issue. Or company being small. They either lack wisdom in how they are making decisions, or have priorities they don't want to share. Either way, this is a completely broken system and I have been unable to get through to them. On anything!
The confidence they have in their answers, given the mess we have, has been incredible. I mean I warned about not jumping into Pro market until we know the product is at least reliable through audiophile base. I explained to them that these products have electronics in them and this is a source of failure. I explained to them that I know this market and what it takes to deal with it. And what the likes of Genelec, Neumann do. Instead of listening, they just jumped on Genelec and Neumann and keep telling me that is not the same Pro customers they want to go after. Really? You didn't get the point about reliability and serviceability of these customers?
I am here to help them. I have told them that I can sell a ton of their gears. Have rock solid financial situation. Great marketing in being able to explain benefits of their products. Do they listen and ask for help? No. Just confident answers, turned around in a few hours after "discussion with the team." Each answer worse than the previous one.
Over the weekend, they completely made me feel like second class citizen, being told to sit in the back of the bus. Yes, I am quite familiar with Korean business culture, having negotiated extensively with major companies such as Samsung and LG. While some of that is clearly at play, there are fundamental issues with how they are running the company, how they are making decisions and importantly, how they are interacting with me.
We deal with companies with shortages all the time. None have progressed in this manner. For example, we had a customer who wanted a Revel speaker. After months of waiting, they sent the much more expensive model to the customer. We notified them and found out they don't have stock of what the customer wanted. What was their solution? Sell the customer the speaker as if it was the much cheaper model they had ordered. No drama. Nothing. Just understanding our situation. I don't enjoy any kind of relationship with Ascilab.
Finally, a point of clarification: we are uniquely situated. My site and entire business is only about Ascilab. We don't sell other products to augment our poor margins. And store remains empty without Ascilab. All the overhead is there. But nothing to transact.
Well, you dodged a big one as i was told to go to the portal to order and with it, compete with the rest of the dealers for the same allocation. Had I bought all the supplies, presumably neither you, nor Audiophonics could have received anything!
I have told them that I do NOT want to do business with them this way. That they should just make a pallet of products for us every month and send it over. That unlike you, we are a volume business. And by pipelining the shipments we erase the painful month wait for sea shipment. Simple, flexible and predictable for them and us. Did they accept it? Nope. Go to the portal and compete with others for products. Whoever gets there first, gets the stock.
You mean Samsung? Seems quite appropriate in this case
In all seriousness, sad situation, what a disaster
That sounds really flawed from a business perspective. If you decide to sell through distributors - commit and treat them well... otherwise they'll compete against you selling something else in the short term. That's basic in the technology business. Selling the same product directly *and* through distributors will be a rough ride due to certain conflicts of interest. And in my experience, startups fail unless they establish a very good and trusted relationship with the resellers/distributors. It's super hard for small companies to operate at global scale without working closely with distributors that know their local market etc etc.
Parting ways is where I left it with them on Sunday after the CEO's last response. If there is any hope of them turning the situation around, it involves hearing from you all as they were completely dismissive of anything I told them. While I hate to walk away from representing such an excellent product in US, there is no way I am going to continue following a broken system. We will see whether you all's comments have made an impact on them. If it has not, then my decision to walk way has been a correct one. If not, then this tool is working.
ObscuredByClouds
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Wait, they make their distributors pay up front and not have net terms on delivery?
We sure they are not robbing Peter to pay Paul?
We sure they are not robbing Peter to pay Paul?
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Well, this kind of situation requires compromise from everyone if there is aspiration for resolution.
Hopefully, Ascilabs has heard the issues for dealer network, undermining them with direct sales is very poor form. I get Amir's feeling of betrayal!
On the flip side, large volume simple sales (tag and release) with an emerging small batch manufacturer without hiccups seems optimistic for a new dealer venture?
I guess Purite has years of experience dealing with this scenario, perhaps time to step up and help navigate a forward path?
Hopefully, Ascilabs has heard the issues for dealer network, undermining them with direct sales is very poor form. I get Amir's feeling of betrayal!
On the flip side, large volume simple sales (tag and release) with an emerging small batch manufacturer without hiccups seems optimistic for a new dealer venture?
I guess Purite has years of experience dealing with this scenario, perhaps time to step up and help navigate a forward path?
Appreciate the transparency, unfortunate that things have progressed on this fashion. Should parting ways be necessary, what becomes of the pre-paid orders (C8C+BX8C in my case)?
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