AsciLab speakers are about to launch

[LeSud]

I think you have very good products, but your communication with your distribution partners and customers is deplorable. By trying to sell too many products that don't exist or will be delivered in six months, you're going to discredit your new brand. Take a break from direct sales and sales through your distributors, and announce realistic delivery times for orders that are more than six months old. On French forums, many customers are canceling their orders because the delivery times are constantly being pushed back. Customers are frustrated, and that's perfectly understandable!

I support Amirm, who is transparent with his customers and finds himself in a situation where you are acting in bad faith. He and his customers are in a difficult position because of you.

 

[Morla]

does not feel too good thinking of my deposited 11k € at audiophonics.

 

[Sokel]

I'm far from a customer for Asci, but this thread is alarming.

Nothing suggests any danger so far, only some delay, overreacting like it's a matter of life and death and spreading fear is far, FAR out of the scope of this hobby which its goal is pure fun!
No Asci speaker will change the world and at the end of the day, for most, will be just an improvement to what they already have.
Music will be the same, no angels will come out of the speakers.

I know it's worrisome to have your money spent and wait, but the demand was obvious and so was the delays.

If I understand well, the price/performance ratio is what it is at the existing scheme, and as ASR members are cost driven most of the time I'm not sure if most would accept the premium of bigger/established companies (which by the way are no virgins at delay)

(the saying is still solid, never mix engineers with sales, it can turn ugly)

 

[stigger]

I missed the last short period in June-July when C6Bs could be purchased on ascilab.com directly with shipping to the EU. It was not immediately obvious that Audiophonics will be the only option, so waited until the new batch appeared on ascilab.com, realized that I can't purchase, so finally ordered the speakers on Audiophonics mid-September. I got them on December 31st.

Having to wait so long was annoying, but it's not like I didn't know what I was getting into. By now you've all read the thread, so just manage your expectations and have a little faith.

 

[pat355]

I missed the last short period in June-July when C6Bs could be purchased on ascilab.com directly with shipping to the EU. It was not immediately obvious that Audiophonics will be the only option, so waited until the new batch appeared on ascilab.com, realized that I can't purchase, so finally ordered the speakers on Audiophonics mid-September. I got them on December 31st.

Having to wait so long was annoying, but it's not like I didn't know what I was getting into. By now you've all read the thread, so just manage your expectations and have a little faith.

with all due respect, what started this was not an ETA issue for a customer but the (public) breaking down of a relationship between the distributor of the biggest market and the manufacturer for reasons that go beyond delays.

 

[Mort]

My weak understanding of this business is that at the best of times, because of shipping, one is dealing with months between order and delivery to a dealer. Air freight is not affordable.

I expect that's why there is conflict. We aren't a short time from resolution. Naturally asciiab gets all the chance in the world to fix this quickly.

Philharmonic audio has 75% gone to a 4 month wait, made to order model.

 

[stigger]

with all due respect, what started this was not an ETA issue for a customer but the (public) breaking down of a relationship between the distributor of the biggest market and the manufacturer for reasons that go beyond delays.

Sounds like Amir didn't realize what he was getting into

 

[Mort]

Sounds like Amir didn't realize what he was getting into

Or the other way around.

 

[stigger]

Or the other way around.

No doubt about that, Ascilab is new at this. Everyone just needs to accept this fact and act accordingly.

 

[somebodyelse]

with all due respect, what started this was not an ETA issue for a customer but the (public) breaking down of a relationship between the distributor of the biggest market and the manufacturer for reasons that go beyond delays.

The uncertainty surrounding what would happen to shipments when they hit US customs certainly wouldn't have helped. It was enough for major international carriers to stop shipping to the US at some points.

 

[ObscuredByClouds]

My experience with my Smyth A16 Realizer should give food for thought. In early 2020, I had an issue where my new A16 would not respond to its' remote. I would up shipping it back to Bristol in Northern Ireland, in early January. That was at the start of the Covid epidemic. I didn't wind up getting it back until around Labor Day, and I had a major hassle with Customs requiring I fill out a declaration. I received the declaration on a Friday, and didn't puzzle out how to fill it out until Monday. In the meantime, DHL sent it back to Northern Ireland, and it had to be reshipped to get it back. Such are the vicissitudes of buying a boutique product made abroad with no US based infrastructure. I hold my nose and tolerate it with Smyth Research because the A16 is a genuine unicorn that does something that no other product in the world can match, and does it stunningly well.

Loudspeakers are another matter. Lots of great loudspeakers out there. I remember I was very interested in GGNT M2's for the longest time because it looked like they could provide genuine cardioid response to 100 hz for half the price of the D&D 8C's, albeit without their bottom octave. Unfortunately, over a five year period, it looks like they are making and will make zero effort to establish a US dealer network or a US based service center. They won't be getting my business now or ever by the look of things.

Now I'm finding Asci Lab may be challenged to provide the infrastructure (spare parts, spare inventory) to support its US dealer. To me that's very serious. I remember around 15 months ago I posted something on this very thread asking what was taking them so much time to release product in the US, given they had already at that time not met their initial product launch projections, and was told in no uncertain terms to "cool it". Well, I think the viability of a manufacturer as well as the technical excellencies of its products are fair game for discussion. Things like how well their supply chain functions, how long it takes them to do warranty service, how available parts are represent important considerations (or should be) in any would be customer's buying decision. It can't just be about how a speaker does on the Klippel, it really can not.

A lot of us would like to buy product from Asci, myself included, but it's imperative that when I make an investment of multiple thousands of dollars, I know that I'm buying something I can confidently believe is coming from a stable company able to provide a full warranty and support system and a quality customer experience.

I really hope Asci Labs is that company, but right now I really need to see more evidence it can meet the challenge of growing from a lab producing remarkable protypes into a company that can translate that into a well run international business able to smoothly meet the expectations of its prospective customers.

Sadly, when I hear of issues like not being able to complete orders for extended periods of time, broken promises, etc, all i think of is when I watched the drama that was AV123 and it's owner unfold.

 

[Mort]

At least the thread title is still accurate.

 

[Rick63]

At least the thread title is still accurate.

 

[slaweks]

And with it, missed my point again.

What I explained to you is that when someone is using your speakers for business, i.e. their livelihood depends on it, you cannot treat them like hi-fi customers. If speakers they are using breaks down, you cannot expect them to wait until a remote part is shipped from Korea to them while their mix/mastering suite is down. Or worse yet, having to wait for an entire speaker to be shipped to US. I explained that you at least need to have a pair of speakers locally in the country, if not parts as well before you engage this market You scuffed that this, saying parts have to come from Korea and that is that. And that because these are "boutique" companies, I don't know what I am talking about. Same as what you are repeating here again.

I know that market. I know it very well. I serve them now through ASR and have worked for small and big companies serving Pro video and audio markets. If you listen to what we need to do, we can hit the ground running any time. I will bring you the customers. But you have to listen to what it takes to be successful there, and provide superb level of pre and post sales.

You have multiple balls in the air. You have no stock across any of your models. This is the worst possible time to go and chase other markets. We have plenty of consumers willing to buy your active products. The problem is not demand. It is your ability to produce them, and fill the channel with them.

I was just told that I have to pay $510 to get C8Cs shipped from Korea to here. Are you serious? How am I supposed to absorb this margin hit after I have already priced and sold these products? Why not listen to me when I say we can't announce new products without proper time and opportunity to work together to fill the channel?

If you are short of resources as a small company, you need to focus. You decide what is important and get that done excellently. Don't chase new dreams, constantly announcing things you can't produce. Or worse yet, try to open new markets when you say you can't keep up with the demand you already have.

I have said nothing earth shattering to you. Any other company would have agreed that we needed to work much better together. Instead, your CEOs responses have been very defiant. I have tried private communications. And repeatedly so. Trying this method now to see if i can get through to you or give up.

"Or worse yet, having to wait for an entire speaker to be shipped to US. I explained that you at least need to have a pair of speakers locally in the country, if not parts as well before you engage this market You scuffed that this, saying parts have to come from Korea and that is that. "

Wow. If a dealer does not have a buffer of parts and speakers, then what is the benefit of a dealer?

 

[ry_]

It really is a bad look when AsciLabs can sell direct but their partners aren’t getting any stock.

I’ve been following this closely since it was first announced because I’ve also been trying to acquire a pair. As a customer, it’s confusing and has me scratching my head when they direct people to their partners but also allow those same people to circumvent their partners and order direct. I see stock appear and disappear and people who’ve been waiting get nothing and people who get lucky enough get something immediately. This just creates frustration and friction all around.

As a person that has ran multiple start ups and small business, I agree with much of what has already been said. They should listen to their partners who have experience, focus on fulfilling all current orders (both B2B and B2C) and close new orders. R&D on new models and lines needs to take a pause while they sort their production and demand issues.

I know what it’s like being scrappy and wearing all hats at small company to make something successful. The difference here is the diluted focus. Ascilabs is trying to do too much at once.

I for one still want a pair and still will wait in line, but it’s clear that things do need to change.

 

[stigger]

People like to make assumptions based on their understanding of the situation. We don't really understand AsciLab's situation, do we? Then why so many people feel to be in a position to give out advice left and right?

For example, the repeated suggestion to "slow down on R&D and focus on shipping out the orders they currently have". But if for some reason for two months they don't have any components to build from and things at the office are rather slow, why not spend that time on R&D? Now that they have the components, it seems that they've dropped everything and are currently building the speakers as fast as they can. What else can they do? Build out a full-cycle factory and start making drivers as well?

The only real source of frustration that I see here is that the customers from the "largest market" feel deprioritized and do not feel the level of service they are accustomed to. Well, this is a complicated topic, and many may not agree with how AsciLab decides to distribute their speakers, but in the end, they are free to do as they wish. One thing is clear: putting a moratorium on R&D is unlikely to help with that either.

 

[pat355]

People like to make assumptions based on their understanding of the situation. We don't really understand AsciLab's situation, do we? Then why so many people feel to be in a position to give out advice left and right?

For example, the repeated suggestion to "slow down on R&D and focus on shipping out the orders they currently have". But if for some reason for two months they don't have any components to build from and things at the office are rather slow, why not spend that time on R&D? Now that they have the components, it seems that they've dropped everything and are currently building the speakers as fast as they can. What else can they do? Build out a full-cycle factory and start making drivers as well?

The only real source of frustration that I see here is that the customers from the "largest market" feel deprioritized and do not feel the level of service they are accustomed to. Well, this is a complicated topic, and many may not agree with how AsciLab decides to distribute their speakers, but in the end, they are free to do as they wish. One thing is clear: putting a moratorium on R&D is unlikely to help with that either.

you're absolutely right, we do not know their situation.
What we do know:
1- this is not a US-only situation. Just because Amir's voice is loud doesn't mean this is localized only to the US. EU situation is similar.
2- the fact that AsciLab are contemplating expanding into new "territories" (eg pros and all the radically different expectations that come with that) is not an assumption, it was voiced to Amir at which point my understanding from his posts is that he pushed back hard.
Hence the "advice" you see of being focused on existing orders for now. That seems like common business sense to me?

My customers always gave me advice when I ran my companies, whether I wanted it or not. As a team, we tried to listen with humility and patience (well, sometimes less so) and we would implement what we thought was fair input from them. It doesn't matter whether the client is making assumptions or not, their actual experience with the brand is almost always extremely valuable input.

 

[Ogoript]

Another concern is the pace and volume of new product announcements. New models are introduced frequently, even while existing products have significant backorders. From a customer’s point of view, it would make far more sense to first fulfill current orders, stabilize production, and then move forward step by step. Instead, the company appears far more focused on product development than on how those products are actually sold, delivered, and supported.

Announcing, developing and supporting production of new lines while not meeting proven demand for existing products would be a significant red flag to me especially if the product has been "prepaid". That working capital is being used for new product. This is common in high growth companies. I'm not saying that is directly happening here, ASCILAB could be on strong financial footing and this isn't an issue. This is another reason that I would put an order though the dealer /distributor network who would back that order such as Amir has stated. This is just my general opinion and experience on high growth new business in general.

 

[pat355]

Announcing, developing and supporting production of new lines while not meeting proven demand for existing products would be a significant red flag to me especially if the product has been "prepaid". That working capital is being used for new product. This is common in high growth companies. I'm not saying that is directly happening here, ASCILAB could be on strong financial footing and this isn't an issue. This is another reason that I would put an order though the dealer /distributor network who would back that order such as Amir has stated. This is just my general opinion and experience on high growth new business in general.

that is an excellent point.

 

[ry_]

People like to make assumptions based on their understanding of the situation. We don't really understand AsciLab's situation, do we? Then why so many people feel to be in a position to give out advice left and right?

For example, the repeated suggestion to "slow down on R&D and focus on shipping out the orders they currently have". But if for some reason for two months they don't have any components to build from and things at the office are rather slow, why not spend that time on R&D? Now that they have the components, it seems that they've dropped everything and are currently building the speakers as fast as they can. What else can they do? Build out a full-cycle factory and start making drivers as well?

The only real source of frustration that I see here is that the customers from the "largest market" feel deprioritized and do not feel the level of service they are accustomed to. Well, this is a complicated topic, and many may not agree with how AsciLab decides to distribute their speakers, but in the end, they are free to do as they wish. One thing is clear: putting a moratorium on R&D is unlikely to help with that either.

I agree with your sentiment about R&D and us not truly knowing what’s going on inside AsciLabs.

But it’s abundantly clear their poor communication with both the partners and public outside of Korea has led to this situation. And it’s not just America which you seem to be implying. It’s literally every market besides their domestic market.

I’ve waited for products for up to a year or more. It’s the clear and forward communication that fostered trust in the product being eventually delivered. What’s happening here is a series decisions that could lead others to mistrust. Announcing new product, taking new orders but not filling current demand? Highly questionable.

They even announced themselves they’re putting all roles into production, which does give us insight into what’s going on in AsciLabs and solidifies current speculation.