AsciLab F6B Bookshelf Speaker Review

[daniboun]

The F6b with subwoofer is impressive. I did not listen side by side with the other speakers. My subjective impression would be F6b with subwoofer > F36

Which sub at fair price would you suggest ?

 

[kharan]

I hope that they will also be available in passive. I have no use case for active speakers (and hope that I never do).

They would have to design an entirely new speaker, a passive cardioid uses the rear radiation of the drivers to generate the out of phase soundwave that cancels out the side and rear radiation. See how the Dutch&Dutch and the Sigberg Audio have side openings to redirect that the rear radiation of their mid-woofers.

That basically means new and different cabinetry, possibly different drivers to make use of that rear radiation. That's not to say it cannot be done, but you can't convert the crossover/DSP in the active C6C to a passive and call it a day. As I said, it's an entirely new speaker based on different principles.

 

[Luvchampagne]

Which sub at fair price would you suggest ?

Lots of choices. Svs sb3000 is one of many. Hsu. Rythmik.

 

[Purité Audio]

I noticed that ASCILAB speakers and web site says "Passive" everywhere. Is there also going o be a line of active powered speakers?

This explains the AsciLAB speaker releases.

https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/_files/ugd/5cac3a_dd3effcb0da34b038138cf5597f37d25.pdf

Keith

 

[daniboun]

Lots of choices. Svs sb3000 is one of many. Hsu. Rythmik.

I said reasonably priced) I think the Polk Audio HTS 12 would be a good option
The Svs sb3000 is about $1600.....

Polk Audio HTS 12 measurements :

Polk Audio HTS 12 Ported Subwoofer Review

The Polk HTS 12 is a 12” ported subwoofer with some innovative tech that allows it to produce clean, tight bass at a retail price of $549 that bellies its specs. Read our review.

www.audioholics.com

@AsciLab any suggestion for the "dream combo" ?

 

[amper42]

I can see that this might be an issue with low watt amps (many tube amps, perhaps or 20-40 watt or less transistor amps.
Back in the early 1980's the Dahlquist DQ-10 speaker would seem to not have any dynamic range with a 70 watt per channel amp.
But throw a CROWN DC 300 on each channel & it would be nice & lively.
It's a matter of matching the power to the speaker.
Not that the speaker is incapable but that you need more power than to bring the speaker to a whisper.

When you have a speaker like the Revel F328Be with 91dB sensitivity its ability to respond to the slightest audio impulse with sheer ease comes through in highly dynamic rhythmic passages. The same holds true for the Revel F228Be.

When you compare the F328Be side by side with a lower sensitivity design like the BMR Tower (86dB) and apply the considerable extra power needed from a Purifi amp to volume match the two speakers they both sound somewhat comparable. But as you spend time with the two designs you start to notice:
1. How the higher sensitivity design response is much easier to produce, which can translate into noticable improvement in dynamic response.
2. Significantly more headroom and the pre-amp volume control is 5dB lower to begin with.
3. It doesn't matter in all music but when playing highly dynamic, syncopated Jazz and Rock passages, one design sounds more lively.

I find the sensitivity level of a speaker design matters. It's not just a number.
Speakers with considerably lower sensitivity have a physical design limitation.

It won't be a big deal in all situations, but spend enough time at lower volumes with syncopated, dynamic music with both a low sensitivity speaker and a higher sensitivity speaker of good quality and you will likely find yourself gravitating toward the higher sensitivity design.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have found that to be the case at all, as long as the amplifier is capable of properly driving the loudspeaker.
Keith

 

[Roy_D]

Audiophonics replied to me they will have inventory of the F6B shortly!

 

[AudioJester]

When you have a speaker like the Revel F328Be with 91dB sensitivity its ability to respond to the slightest audio impulse with sheer ease comes through in highly dynamic rhythmic passages. The same holds true for the Revel F228Be.

When you compare the F328Be side by side with a lower sensitivity design like the BMR Tower (86dB) and apply the considerable extra power needed from a Purifi amp to volume match the two speakers they both sound somewhat comparable. But as you spend time with the two designs you start to notice:
1. How the higher sensitivity design response is much easier to produce, which can translate into noticable improvement in dynamic response.
2. Significantly more headroom and the pre-amp volume control is 5dB lower to begin with.
3. It doesn't matter in all music but when playing highly dynamic, syncopated Jazz and Rock passages, one design sounds more lively.

I find the sensitivity level of a speaker design matters. It's not just a number.
Speakers with considerably lower sensitivity have a physical design limitation.

It won't be a big deal in all situations, but spend enough time at lower volumes with syncopated, dynamic music with both a low sensitivity speaker and a higher sensitivity speaker of good quality and you will likely find yourself gravitating toward the higher sensitivity design.

I can only assume the amp was not up to the task

 

[Luvchampagne]

I said reasonably priced) I think the Polk Audio HTS 12 would be a good option
The Svs sb3000 is about $1600.....

Polk Audio HTS 12 measurements :

Polk Audio HTS 12 Ported Subwoofer Review

The Polk HTS 12 is a 12” ported subwoofer with some innovative tech that allows it to produce clean, tight bass at a retail price of $549 that bellies its specs. Read our review.

www.audioholics.com

@AsciLab any suggestion for the "dream combo" ?

You said fair price.

Which sub at fair price would you suggest ?

 

[Luvchampagne]

I said reasonably priced) I think the Polk Audio HTS 12 would be a good option
The Svs sb3000 is about $1600.....

Polk Audio HTS 12 measurements :

Polk Audio HTS 12 Ported Subwoofer Review

The Polk HTS 12 is a 12” ported subwoofer with some innovative tech that allows it to produce clean, tight bass at a retail price of $549 that bellies its specs. Read our review.

www.audioholics.com

@AsciLab any suggestion for the "dream combo" ?

Then you ask for the "dream" combo?

 

[daniboun]

You said fair price.

Which sub at fair price would you suggest ?

Those speakers are about $800....
so $600 for a sub is what I consider a fair price )

PS : no animosity in my message) long live the music)

 

[SMen]

When you have a speaker like the Revel F328Be with 91dB sensitivity its ability to respond to the slightest audio impulse with sheer ease comes through in highly dynamic rhythmic passages. The same holds true for the Revel F228Be.

When you compare the F328Be side by side with a lower sensitivity design like the BMR Tower (86dB) and apply the considerable extra power needed from a Purifi amp to volume match the two speakers they both sound somewhat comparable. But as you spend time with the two designs you start to notice:
1. How the higher sensitivity design response is much easier to produce, which can translate into noticable improvement in dynamic response.
2. Significantly more headroom and the pre-amp volume control is 5dB lower to begin with.
3. It doesn't matter in all music but when playing highly dynamic, syncopated Jazz and Rock passages, one design sounds more lively.

I find the sensitivity level of a speaker design matters. It's not just a number.
Speakers with considerably lower sensitivity have a physical design limitation.

It won't be a big deal in all situations, but spend enough time at lower volumes with syncopated, dynamic music with both a low sensitivity speaker and a higher sensitivity speaker of good quality and you will likely find yourself gravitating toward the higher sensitivity design.

Historically, and within my budget, I have found the same. Sealed cabinets can make a difference - I guess the passive radiator provides some of these benefits for transients?

It is interesting you compare with a high power class D. If I try these I'll be comparing with much higher efficiency speakers, 90+ db using 3e audio class D amplifiers. It will be interesting ... years ago I had Epos ES14s and there was big emphasis on needing a Naim rack to power them ... so I changed direction for many of the reasons you allude to.

If I do, I will hoping the F6B's redefine my experience I hasten to add.

 

[Matias]

Historically, and within my budget, I have found the same. Sealed cabinets can make a difference - I guess the passive radiator provides some of these benefits for transients?

Passive radiators act like ports in the sense of bass extension and group delay, but without any possible port noise caused by airflow, and more expensive because a tuned membrane is more expensive than a tube and flair. IMO it is the more elegant solution from an engineering point of view.

 

[dasdoing]

View attachment 455758

I don't agree with this arrow.
It's not a bad speaker, but I see a broadband boost at 110Hz-ish, and a pretty significant lack of output over 5500Hz-ish.
might sound nice, but not neutral

 

[amper42]

I don't agree with this arrow.
It's not a bad speaker, but I see a broadband boost at 110Hz-ish, and a pretty significant lack of output over 5500Hz-ish.
might sound nice, but not neutral

While these frequency response graphs offer insight on how flat the speaker might be. It doesn't offer the whole story. I have not found them decisive in determining whether I would actually enjoy listening to the speaker long term. There are many other factors that come into play during a listening experience.

I remember buying the Revel M105 because I was excited about how well it measured at ASR. Only to find once I owned it the low end is absolutely terrible and it sounds like a toy compared to the BMR Monitor or Revel F228Be. Displacement matters. The scores assigned in these tests don't reflect the magnitude of advantages even a minimally larger speaker offers.

Speaker scores are "Eye Candy". Helpful as a starting point but absolutely worthless in making an informed decision on which speaker excites me enough to own. You really have to spend some time with the speaker before you decide if it's worth owning regardless of charts and scores. A great return policy on any speaker purchase is essential. If there's shipping and restocking fees involved in returns, run the other way. If the speaker return policy includes unspecified round-trip shipping fees and was shipped to you at no extra charge, expect to walk away considerably lighter than you walked in. Speaker manufacturers who offer free returns are the ones I want to support.

 

[kyuu]

A great return policy on any speaker purchase is essential. If there's shipping and restocking fees involved in returns, run the other way.

Nonsense. Expecting a retailer to simply eat the costs of shipping items as potentially heavy and/or bulky as speakers, not to mention the costs of restocking (inspecting, repacking properly, marking down for open-box/scratch-and-dent) is unreasonable. You want a good return policy of course, but the retailer charging a nominal fee for the return is absolutely not a reason to "run the other way".

While these frequency response graphs offer insight on how flat the speaker might be. It doesn't offer the whole story. I have not found them decisive in determining whether I would actually enjoy listening to the speaker long term. There are many other factors that come into play during a listening experience.

One should definitely look at all the data, not just the frequency response. The difference between a bookshelf with a 5- or 6-inch driver and an MTM or floorstander becomes obvious from the data if one looks at THD and IMD vs SPL, for example. You also have to use your common sense; you can't order a 2-way bookshelf with a 5" woofer and expect its low-end to compete with a rather larger 3-way with a 6" woofer or a floorstander with multiple 8" woofers.

 

[amper42]

Nonsense. Expecting a retailer to simply eat the costs of shipping items as potentially heavy and/or bulky as speakers, not to mention the costs of restocking (inspecting, repacking properly, marking down for open-box/scratch-and-dent) is unreasonable. You want a good return policy of course, but the retailer charging a nominal fee for the return is absolutely not a reason to "run the other way".

One should definitely look at all the data, not just the frequency response. The difference between a bookshelf with a 5- or 6-inch driver and an MTM or floorstander becomes obvious from the data if one looks at THD and IMD vs SPL, for example. You also have to use your common sense; you can't order a 2-way bookshelf with a 5" woofer and expect its low-end to compete with a rather larger 3-way with a 6" woofer or a floorstander with multiple 8" woofers.

When the return policy causes the buyer to pay over 20% of the original price out-of-pocket to complete a return it's not a great value for the buyer. I have been there with Magnepan speakers. It was worth paying the fees to get them out of my home. Almost like paying 1-800-got-junk to take them away.

But having learned from my mistakes I know there are alternatives. Like establishing a relationship with a quality reseller who will accommodate a listening trial or using Crutchfield's prepaid trial program which limits return costs.

Buying speakers without an advance listening session is a little crazy. If you get something you absolutely love you lucked out. If not, know what the damage will be in advance for the privilege to evaluate their creations.

 

[TimW]

Those speakers are about $800....
so $600 for a sub is what I consider a fair price )

PS : no animosity in my message) long live the music)

From the review of that Polk subwoofer:

As the reviewer states, this is the typical peaked response you get from entry level subwoofers. You can EQ it flat in the room but the drop-off in response below 30Hz would be hard to correct for.

Here is the AH review of the HSU sub I own ($689.00):

This is one of the lowest price subs you can find with a very flat and deep response (-2dB @ 16Hz with the 1 Port Open Mode).

Other more affordable options would be from the Monoprice Monolith line. I agree SVS is pricey

 

[Mike_Trueman]

Why not buy a sub from Ascilab later?