AsciLab F6B Bookshelf Speaker Review

[levimax]

The liveliness and responsive is more related with Qms.

I have seen "more low volume liveliness" and "better transient response" mentioned when talking about speakers. Outside of knowing the drivers Qms is there anything in Spinorama data that would indicate the relative "liveliness" and "transient response" of a speaker?

 

[AsciLab]

I have seen "more low volume liveliness" and "better transient response" mentioned when talking about speakers. Outside of knowing the drivers Qms is there anything in Spinorama data that would indicate the relative "liveliness" and "transient response" of a speaker?

It’s hard to say about liveliness and transient seeing Spinorama. Spinorama is about frequency response and directivity.

 

[Purité Audio]

Often speakers with really jagged FR are considered ‘lively’!
Keith

 

[RickS]

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I searched every 6” woofer speaker’s spinorama in EAC.
Look at the bass sensitivity around 100~300Hz(below baffle step, above bass tuning frequency, 100Hz can be affected though).
If some of them look higher sensitivity than the others, then look at the bass extension.

Like the interaction and your new speakers, but this post is image overload and can be stated with words. Please revise. Thanks!

 

[muad]

I have seen "more low volume liveliness" and "better transient response" mentioned when talking about speakers. Outside of knowing the drivers Qms is there anything in Spinorama data that would indicate the relative "liveliness" and "transient response" of a speaker?

Speaker that sounds good at low volumes have a dip through the mid range, or elevated bass/treble, which is inverse to our hearing sensitivity. As in we need more bass and treble at low volumes for things to sound equal to the midrange.

When you turn the volume up, they become unlistenable, as the treble and bass now become too much.

Having a neutral speaker and a loudness knob is the preferable option. If you turn a neutral speaker louder, it sounds better, but when they're played at low volumes, they're less engaging, because the perceived treble and bass is missing.

 

[Endibol]

Higher sensitivity speakers feel more “lively” and “responsive” at lower listening levels.

Do you really think so? No modern amplifier should have problems with these "low sensitivity" speakers. Certainly not at low volume where the amplifier barely doesn't have to deliver power. I think your feeling wouldn't survive a blind test.

 

[Endibol]

Well done! ... can we deduce the F6B model's price from this, because it looks on the right track...

Certainly if you realize that 20% VAT has been added to the imported price level.

 

[Juhazi]

Don't forget Amphion Argon 3s, which is in the same construction ideaform. And very expensive !

Amphion was one of the first to use large waveguides, in 1990s. Crossovers and boxes were nothing special and neither prices. S series is another story

Measurements can be found here https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

and here the little brother Helium https://www.stereophile.com/content/amphion-heliumsup2sup-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[levimax]

Speaker that sounds good at low volumes have a dip through the mid range, or elevated bass/treble, which is inverse to our hearing sensitivity. As in we need more bass and treble at low volumes for things to sound equal to the midrange.

When you turn the volume up, they become unlistenable, as the treble and bass now become too much.

Having a neutral speaker and a loudness knob is the preferable option. If you turn a neutral speaker louder, it sounds better, but when they're played at low volumes, they're less engaging, because the perceived treble and bass is missing.

View attachment 456886

Do you really think so? No modern amplifier should have problems with these "low sensitivity" speakers. Certainly not at low volume where the amplifier barely doesn't have to deliver power. I think your feeling wouldn't survive a blind test.

I have always thought the same as 2 posts above ^ but when @AsciLab mentioned Qms as a factor in transient response I looked it up and there are a lot of subjective claims about how high Qms drivers handle low volume and transients as compared to low Qms drivers. Not sure if any research has been done but I take @AsciLab comments seriously.

 

[muad]

I have always thought the same as 2 posts above ^ but when @AsciLab mentioned Qms as a factor in transient response I looked it up and there are a lot of subjective claims about how high Qms drivers handle low volume and transients as compared to low Qms drivers. Not sure if any research has been done but I take @AsciLab comments seriously.

Totally agree, my comment was referring to people saying x speaker sounds good at low volumes. I see that claim alot, usually with speakers with an uneven frequency response.

 

[Labjr]

Great to see more relatively inexpensive speakers that are well designed. Pretty low sensitivity. I see recommended amplifier. What is the power handling capability?

I wonder how it compares to the Ascend Sierra V2 which is pretty close in price?

 

[Endibol]

I have always thought the same as 2 posts above ^ but when @AsciLab mentioned Qms as a factor in transient response I looked it up and there are a lot of subjective claims about how high Qms drivers handle low volume and transients as compared to low Qms drivers. Not sure if any research has been done but I take @AsciLab comments seriously.

I didn’t know about this possible factor that may influence low volume behavior. Interesting, worthwhile looking into. Thanks

 

[SMen]

I think that materials used in the drive units deserve a mention where it comes to sensitivity and perceptions of liveliness etc. at low volumes. Seems so obvious don't dare to mention!

 

[ENG]

Amphion was one of the first to use large waveguides, in 1990s. Crossovers and boxes were nothing special and neither prices. S series is another story

Measurements can be found here https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

and here the little brother Helium https://www.stereophile.com/content/amphion-heliumsup2sup-loudspeaker-measurements

In what way is S series another story ? Measurement in Soundstage is the version without “S”.

 

[AndreaT]

Outstanding measurements. On my to buy list. Great job in finding the best, close to SOTA offers, at reasonable prices, Amir!

 

[EJ3]

84dB sensitivity.... ugh

Higher sensitivity speakers feel more “lively” and “responsive” at lower listening levels. This is a natural advantage of higher-sensitivity designs—they reach impactful dynamics with less amplifier effort, which will be noticeable in systems with less powerful amps, yet still perceptible even with high-power amplification.
Speaker sensitivity affects how “easily” a speaker comes alive, even when amplifier power is not a limiting factor.

What causes the F6B design to offer such limited sensitivity?

Is there a chance AsciLab will release a 90dB sensitivity speaker option at some point?

​

I can see that this might be an issue with low watt amps (many tube amps, perhaps or 20-40 watt or less transistor amps.
Back in the early 1980's the Dahlquist DQ-10 speaker would seem to not have any dynamic range with a 70 watt per channel amp.
But throw a CROWN DC 300 on each channel & it would be nice & lively.
It's a matter of matching the power to the speaker.
Not that the speaker is incapable but that you need more power than to bring the speaker to a whisper.

 

[Labjr]

I noticed that ASCILAB speakers and web site says "Passive" everywhere. Is there also going o be a line of active powered speakers?

 

[Grotti]

I noticed that ASCILAB speakers and web site says "Passive" everywhere. Is there also going o be a line of active powered speakers?

Yes, at least all the cardioid speakers and the bass modules.

 

[bmc0]

Do you really think so? No modern amplifier should have problems with these "low sensitivity" speakers. Certainly not at low volume where the amplifier barely doesn't have to deliver power. I think your feeling wouldn't survive a blind test.

I agree. My main speakers are quite high sensitivity by most people's reckoning (~96dB/2.83V; 8Ω nom. woofer, 16Ω nom. tweeter) and I certainly don't buy the assertion that high sensitivity is inherently better at low volume. As long as the speakers and amp(s) are sufficiently linear at a given volume level, the sensitivity/efficiency by itself has no bearing on sound quality.

I looked it up and there are a lot of subjective claims about how high Qms drivers handle low volume and transients as compared to low Qms drivers.

I don't see why it would matter unless high-loss suspensions tend to have some kind of low-level linearity problem (which I doubt). Subjective comments about transients are pretty much meaningless in my experience. Speakers touted as having especially "fast" transients are often full of audible resonances (i.e. have objectively poor transient behavior).

 

[EJ3]

Yes, at least all the cardioid speakers and the bass modules.

I hope that they will also be available in passive. I have no use case for active speakers (and hope that I never do).
Each component I have can be pulled out of the system for service & replaced by another on hand (including my speakers).
But to have continuity, I would then have to have spare Active speakers around, also.
I am not doing without music, even if the power is out, my system will stay powered (UPS & generators).
But a bad amp in an active speaker & extras, might cause me to go down.