Ascilab C8C vs. Pitt & Giblin Superwax Mini

[Karmacoma]

Move over, La Scala.
Like everybody else, I'd like to see some extended measurements of the speakers from this brand. Their kinda neo-art-deco design is really appealing.

 

[DanielT]

Whats the best way to compare output between speakers?

There needs to be some objective criteria. Mainly the level of distortion. For example, let's say a maximum of 1% distortion (maybe 10-15% for frequencies below 100 Hz) at max SPL.

SPL levels that speaker manufacturers state in their specs only say that the speakers can sound so or so loud. Which doesn't say much.

Have you heard young people who have those brutally fat woofers in their cars that they blast off so that it can be heard for several blocks? It's booming and loud, but how clean does it sound/is it?

 

[AudioJester]

There needs to be some objective criteria. Mainly the level of distortion. For example, let's say a maximum of 1% distortion (maybe 10-15% for frequencies below 100 Hz) at max SPL.

SPL levels that speaker manufacturers state in their specs only say that the speakers can sound so or so loud. Which doesn't say much.

Have you heard young people who have those brutally fat woofers in their cars that they blast off so that it can be heard for several blocks? It's booming and loud, but how clean does it sound/is it?

Lol I have 2 10inch subs in the boot of one of my cars....
I dont think you can hear much from the outside though, its tuned with dsp

Show us your Cars

I see that it is waiting for it's dose of Yellow/Green color so that it can have the seasonal look of it's relatives. This faithful companion is just waiting to be moved or refueled. Its seasonal color is an always-ready paint job that doesn't change, especially not to yellow or green. If you...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[DanielT]

Lol I have 2 10inch subs in the boot of one of my cars....
I dont think you can hear much from the outside though, its tuned with dsp

Show us your Cars

I see that it is waiting for it's dose of Yellow/Green color so that it can have the seasonal look of it's relatives. This faithful companion is just waiting to be moved or refueled. Its seasonal color is an always-ready paint job that doesn't change, especially not to yellow or green. If you...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Of course you should have decent bass in your car,.. but I'm too old to appreciate that extreme show off rumble called "bass" that wakes up neighbors miles away.

In any case, talking about SPL without saying clean SPL is a bit pointless, I think. That's if we mean hi-fi sound, that is.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

View attachment 536020
Move over, La Scala.
Like everybody else, I'd like to see some extended measurements of the speakers from this brand. Their kinda neo-art-deco design is really appealing.

Love it! Anywhere in Melbourne we can have a listen @pittandgiblin ?
Cardiod design too and only about AUD 34k (that's only a few nickels for those of you playing in the USA )

 

[Keith_W]

Love it! Anywhere in Melbourne we can have a listen @pittandgiblin ?
Cardiod design too and only about AUD 34k (that's only a few nickels for those of you playing in the USA )

By the time it gets over there, with shipping and tariffs, it would be substantially more than AUD$34k. Even if they do save 11% because they don't have to pay our GST.

I too would love to hear them if there is a pair in Melbourne. Otherwise you and I might have to book an international flight to Hobart

 

[pittandgiblin]

Sorry to say but if someone is cross shopping our product against a painted MDF speaker purely based on measurement data, they're probably not our customer... That's why engaging on these discussions is not high on my priorities. We'll try and get some distortion data for you all some day, it's on the growing list of things to do.

Will we find out if all 6x 8's and 750w RMS are working as one on the LF in the Asci rig?

We're all over the hospitality scene in Melbourne, no retailers/stores... Waxflower, Three Horses, Caretakers Cottage, Zareh, Rossi, Rodd & Gunn - just to name a few. Or pop down to Hobart

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Sorry to say but if someone is cross shopping our product against a painted MDF speaker purely based on measurement data, they're probably not our customer... That's why engaging on these discussions is not high on my priorities. We'll try and get some distortion data for you all some day, it's on the growing list of things to do.

Will we find out if all 6x 8's and 750w RMS are working as one on the LF in the Asci rig?

We're all over the hospitality scene in Melbourne, no retailers/stores... Waxflower, Three Horses, Caretakers Cottage, Zareh, Rossi, Rodd & Gunn - just to name a few. Or pop down to Hobart

I’ve been to Waxflower a few times. Problem is those visits end up with way too much wine and very little critical listening!

Also heard your speakers at the SNA hifi show (and very much enjoyed them - both the sound and the aesthetic).

 

[Karmacoma]

Sorry to say but if someone is cross shopping our product against a painted MDF speaker purely based on measurement data, they're probably not our customer...

Surely you couldn't have missed most of us talking about their design and of course their price along with their measurements, but performance is indeed quite important for people on this forum.

We'll try and get some distortion data for you all some day, it's on the growing list of things to do.

Thank you, we'll take you at your word though it's somewhat puzzling you don't already have easy access to it.
Some benevolent reviewers like @amirm here on ASR or Erin from Erin's Audio Corner have expressed an interest in reviewing some of your products, I hope you won't overlook that.
Best wishes for your venture.

 

[Keith_W]

Sorry to say but if someone is cross shopping our product against a painted MDF speaker purely based on measurement data, they're probably not our customer... That's why engaging on these discussions is not high on my priorities. We'll try and get some distortion data for you all some day, it's on the growing list of things to do.

Will we find out if all 6x 8's and 750w RMS are working as one on the LF in the Asci rig?

We're all over the hospitality scene in Melbourne, no retailers/stores... Waxflower, Three Horses, Caretakers Cottage, Zareh, Rossi, Rodd & Gunn - just to name a few. Or pop down to Hobart

You should consider what some other Aussie manufacturers do. Maintain a list of owners in Melbourne who might be willing to have visitors, and give them a small commission if their demo leads to a sale.

And it's very nice to see you here, as you can see - there is a lot of curiosity about your speakers.

 

[AudioJester]

Will we find out if all 6x 8's and 750w RMS are working as one on the LF in the Asci rig?

@AsciLab is the one who can answer that?

@pittandgiblin Have you not measured distortion data for your speakers?

 

[AsciLab]

@AudioJester
@pittandgiblin

It’s nice to see this discussion about our C8C/BX8C.

Let me answer the question,

For first, Our C8C/BX8C subwoofer drivers have 12mm Xmax. It’s a bit longer than average. If we calculate the “real” important information - Vd(Peak Diaphragm Displacement Volume) is 206(Sd)*1.2(Xmax)*6(quantity)=1483.2cm^3.
If comparing this volume to one 15” driver - let me assume the Sd 840cm^2, then the Xmax should be 17-18mm. It’s a quite long excursion to have as a 2 way high sensitivity woofer, maybe 8-10mm makes sense more.
But P&G design is ported design. So the Xmax can’t be the most effective parameter to compare. I guess the difference of Max SPL between them above the tuning frequency may be around 3 or 4 dB - C8C/BX8C is higher.

Second, the 6 woofers move as the same phase with Max SPL mode(down to 100Hz cardioid pattern). So there is no SPL lost by cardioid pattern below 100Hz.
Standard Mode(50Hz) loses 1.5dB, Extended Mode(40Hz) loses 3dB around 30-60Hz. You can see the Max SPL measurements here.

I hope these answers would help!

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Sorry to say but if someone is cross shopping our product against a painted MDF speaker purely based on measurement data, they're probably not our customer.

Yeah, I think this is accurate, and represents a massive difference from Ascilab, which is aimed squarely at measurements-conscious buyers. As I wrote in another thread about P&G:

latch on to the burgeoning performance-aware market, but leapfrog genelec/d&d/kii/et al. on looks, and you can be sure that interior designers with big budgets will come sniffing around.

P&G speakers were always destined to wind up in stylish restaurants, bars, hotels...and the fact that they also sound good (it seems. I haven't heard them.) is a bonus.

On edit: I said almost exactly what P&G said: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eakers-spinorama-available.65981/post-2404822

Their market isn't ASR data analyst types; it's design types who want some reassurance of sound quality but won't drill down further.

 

[pittandgiblin]

Thanks for the response Ascilab! I figured there was probably different modes with the BX8C. It's cool stuff.

It's worth noting that those displacement calcs assume that the 125wpc amplifiers can take the 8's to xMax. I'm hesitant to make comment but maybe someone else wants to do the maths

 

[AsciLab]

Thanks for the response Ascilab! I figured there was probably different modes with the BX8C. It's cool stuff.

It's worth noting that those displacement calcs assume that the 125wpc amplifiers can take the 8's to xMax. I'm hesitant to make comment but maybe someone else wants to do the maths

Here are the maths. 20L(C8C), 2 drivers with parallel connection, 4Ohm 250W.
BX8C has larger internal volume.

 

[Keith_W]

P&G speakers were always destined to wind up in stylish restaurants, bars, hotels...and the fact that they also sound good (it seems. I haven't heard them.) is a bonus.

This also means that their speakers have been tested in a tough environment with a heavy duty cycle. My speakers don't have to play loud music for 12 hours a day, have dozens of customers touching them, survive spilled drinks, etc. and still look good.

 

[amirm]

Sorry to say but if someone is cross shopping our product against a painted MDF speaker purely based on measurement data, they're probably not our customer... That's why engaging on these discussions is not high on my priorities.

Then I don't know why you post measurements at all. The people who know how to read those measurements are here. Not in the customer base you mentioned. Commercial market in US is not at all interested in such specs and instead, wants far lower prices.

 

[amirm]

This also means that their speakers have been tested in a tough environment with a heavy duty cycle. My speakers don't have to play loud music for 12 hours a day, have dozens of customers touching them, survive spilled drinks, etc. and still look good.

That wood finish would be very unsuitable for that market. And any environment with food prep will mean an oily residue in no time. It is very odd to me that this is their target market.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

And any environment with food prep will mean an oily residue in no time.

pretty sure they're not placing them in the kitchen

they'll be fine in dining rooms

Basically, it seems clear that P&G speakers are a good fit for a well-budgeted designer who's been given the brief of acquiring great-looking, attention-getting speakers that sound good. They measure well enough to be respectable for any but the toughest hi-fi critic, and their design is a natural fit for a lot of today's MCM-inspired commercial interiors. I know at least 50 bars/lounges/retail shops/restaurants in my city where they'd be perfect additions. Form over function people often still want good function, after all.

 

[oudiaou]

solely based on the spinorama, it looks like the P&G speaker has quite narrow directivity in its high-frequency range, more so than most other designs praised here on ASR (e.g. Revel speakers). Whether or not this is something @pawsman likes is a question of taste. Given that they enjoy listening to orchestral music - which may benefit from higher envelopment (broad directivity & lots of indirect sound) - I would certainly give them a listen before purchasing.