Ascilab C8C V1.1 Measurement Update

[LordxNohman]

Curious do you think this issue with hyperx support would love you away from the brand for a V2 of this speaker or future active speakers?

 

[829]

Why would it? It doesn't seem to be a lack of Hypex's willingness to support but rather an OEM feature which until now has probably never been requested. Hypex might as well implement that in near future but I'd expect such design changes in the update path, with testing to take ~6 months time at least. Anyway, AsciLab promised they'd update all pre-ordered unitis remotely (upon request, I guess), if that's the best short term solution. Newer batches will surely be delivered with V1.1 installed. And for people who use the BX8C there's apparently no change at all (on P3).

Further I'd not expect a version 2 of these speakers, cause there's nothing more you can meaningfully improve. But different designs (with different compromises) will be offered down the road. For this one, only color customisation would be an open playground.

 

[LordxNohman]

Why would it? It doesn't seem to be a lack of Hypex's willingness to support but rather an OEM feature which until now has probably never been requested. Hypex might as well implement that in near future but I'd expect such design changes in the update path, with testing to take ~6 months time at least. Anyway, AsciLab promised they'd update all pre-ordered unitis remotely (upon request, I guess), if that's the best short term solution. Newer batches will surely be delivered with V1.1 installed. And for people who use the BX8C there's apparently no change at all (on P3).

Further I'd not expect a version 2 of these speakers, cause there's nothing more you can meaningfully improve. But different designs (with different compromises) will be offered down the road. For this one, only color customisation would be an open playground.

This would lead me to believe engagement with them has been less than ideal..."So we're gonna ask to Hypex one time more, If we receive there is no way, We'll update the filter one by one through remote support."

There is always something to improve even just cabinet quality/finish, but in this instance I was referring to a solution that had the ability to load an entire new firmware rather than incrementally upload individual filters.

 

[markstein]

Please see the animation and if you are hard to assemble, feel free to contact to us. It is thrilled for us too that waiting to see the first impression of other’s!

Hi @AsciLab, I received my BX8C today and are currently setting them up. It is about impossible for me to insert the side screws fixing the C8C alu frame to the BX8C alu frame as the holes are not in line due to the damping material at the bottom of C8C. Is there any trick to get them installed?

 

[AsciLab]

Hi @AsciLab, I received my BX8C today and are currently setting them up. It is about impossible for me to insert the side screws fixing the C8C alu frame to the BX8C alu frame as the holes are not in line due to the damping material at the bottom of C8C. Is there any trick to get them installed?

We faced that issue later. Sorry for yhe inconvenience. The way we found is let them upside down when you joint the bolts, or you need someone else to push the top speaker down.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@amirm, since looking further into Transducer Resonance and understanding better why we do not want it, looking at the curves of the spinorama of that speaker, I cannot see any.
Am I right or is there some sign of Transducer Resonance that I cannot see?

 

[markstein]

We faced that issue later. Sorry for yhe inconvenience. The way we found is let them upside down when you joint the bolts, or you need someone else to push the top speaker down.

Honestly, this seems to be a design issue.

It is still impossible - at least for me - to apply enough pressure to align the frames and insert the side screws.
Which torque (Nm) do you recommend to screw the frame on the bottom of C8C? Maybe is used too much torque and compressed the rubber bottom too much. You should also add this information in an assembly instruction as part of the manual.

Edit: I checked and my screws (frame to C8C) are fixed with as low as 2Nm, so this cannot be the root cause for the issue)

I would like to avoid excessive forces to the frame which could lead to an instant or long term damage to the frames.

Is there anybody else with these issues or am I the only one?

 

[AsciLab]

Honestly, this seems to be a design issue.

It is still impossible - at least for me - to apply enough pressure to align the frames and insert the side screws.
Which torque (Nm) do you recommend to screw the frame on the bottom of C8C? Maybe is used too much torque and compressed the rubber bottom too much. You should also add this information in an assembly instruction as part of the manual.
I would like to avoid excessive forces to the frame which could lead to an instant or long term damage to the frames.

Is there anybody else with these issues or am I the only one?

After reviewing this issue, the vibration-damping pad has been changed from foam to a silicone material.

The problem was that a 1-2mm offset was occurring due to compression of the foam.

Since it’s the foam — not the frame — that absorbs the force when pressed, there’s no need to worry about structural damage. What does need attention is the risk of the bolt head being damaged during assembly if it isn’t compressed sufficiently.

This was an issue we failed to catch in the initial production batch. We apologize for the inconvenience.

 

[markstein]

After reviewing this issue, the vibration-damping pad has been changed from foam to a silicone material.

The problem was that a 1-2mm offset was occurring due to compression of the foam.

Since it’s the foam — not the frame — that absorbs the force when pressed, there’s no need to worry about structural damage. What does need attention is the risk of the bolt head being damaged during assembly if it isn’t compressed sufficiently.

This was an issue we failed to catch in the initial production batch. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I am sorry, but this is more than an inconvenience. It is a design flaw in a loudspeaker costing more than 12 kEUR, and needs to be corrected

Please provide a fix to your early customers (e.g. a new frame with different dimensions/ optimized hole pattern or a 1.5 mm spacer frame

Edit: The level of misalignment can be seen in this photo. You also see that compression of the rubber alone probably won't fix that.



I will contact you directly to agree the next steps.

 

[amirm]

@amirm, since looking further into Transducer Resonance and understanding better why we do not want it, looking at the curves of the spinorama of that speaker, I cannot see any.
Am I right or is there some sign of Transducer Resonance that I cannot see?

We can see a bit of it in near-field response:

Notice the peaking around 700 Hz. It is very well controlled however and likely dialed out with an EQ, leaving no residue in the frequency response. As Dr. Toole is fond of saying, if a resonance does not modify the frequency response, it is not audible!

 

[AsciLab]

I am sorry, but this is more than an inconvenience. It is a design flaw in a loudspeaker costing more than 12 kEUR, and needs to be corrected

Please provide a fix to your early customers (e.g. a new frame with different dimensions/ optimized hole pattern or a 1.5 mm spacer frame).

I will contact you directly to agree the next steps.

Of course.

Please email us to discuss this issue.
Our address is here :

[email protected]

Thank you.

 

[AsciLab]

We can see a bit of it in near-field response:

Notice the peaking around 700 Hz. It is very well controlled however and likely dialed out with an EQ, leaving no residue in the frequency response. As Dr. Toole is fond of saying, if a resonance does not modify the frequency response, it is not audible!

That near-field measurement resonance was on purpose to tame the directivity more smooth. It is not driver resonance, it's rather necessary response.

 

[AudioJester]

I am sorry, but this is more than an inconvenience. It is a design flaw in a loudspeaker costing more than 12 kEUR, and needs to be corrected

Please provide a fix to your early customers (e.g. a new frame with different dimensions/ optimized hole pattern or a 1.5 mm spacer frame

Edit: The level of misalignment can be seen in this photo. You also see that compression of the rubber alone probably won't fix that.

View attachment 542446

I will contact you directly to agree the next steps.

A few of us encountered this. It is possible to push down and compress the pad to insert the screws.

 

[goat76]

A few of us encountered this. It is possible to push down and compress the pad to insert the screws.

Can anyone of you provide a picture of this problem?

 

[AsciLab]

I am sorry, but this is more than an inconvenience. It is a design flaw in a loudspeaker costing more than 12 kEUR, and needs to be corrected

Please provide a fix to your early customers (e.g. a new frame with different dimensions/ optimized hole pattern or a 1.5 mm spacer frame

Edit: The level of misalignment can be seen in this photo. You also see that compression of the rubber alone probably won't fix that.

View attachment 542446

I will contact you directly to agree the next steps.

After we checked our samples, we found they don’t have that much misalignment. Even the last one (most shifted) can be jointed well. The sample of yours looks it has more misalignment than usual. We’ll contact you as soon as possible for your email address we received after discuss with Audiophonics to solve this problem.

 

[markstein]

I am sorry, but this is more than an inconvenience. It is a design flaw in a loudspeaker costing more than 12 kEUR, and needs to be corrected

Please provide a fix to your early customers (e.g. a new frame with different dimensions/ optimized hole pattern or a 1.5 mm spacer frame

Edit: The level of misalignment can be seen in this photo. You also see that compression of the rubber alone probably won't fix that.

View attachment 542446

I will contact you directly to agree the next steps.

Update: Both Audiophonics and Ascilab provided excellent support and we found a solution for my specific case. As I understand, there will be an assembly instruction for future customers to avoid the specific issue I experienced.
Thank you a lot - especially Jinsung Ko from Ascilab!

 

[muslhead]

Update: Both Audiophonics and Ascilab provided excellent support and we found a solution for my specific case. As I understand, there will be an assembly instruction for future customers to avoid the specific issue I experienced.
Thank you a lot - especially Jinsung Ko from Ascilab!

thanks for being the guinea pig for us late arrivers

 

[AudioJester]

Update: Both Audiophonics and Ascilab provided excellent support and we found a solution for my specific case. As I understand, there will be an assembly instruction for future customers to avoid the specific issue I experienced.
Thank you a lot - especially Jinsung Ko from Ascilab!

What was the issue?
I was wondering if we had the C8C on a stand for a while - before getting the BX8C - the foam/rubber had allready slightly compressed from the weight.

Even without bolting it, the C8C is very secure in the BX8C top bracket. Makes it easier for big moves - switching rooms etc. if you dont bolt together

 

[markstein]

What was the issue?
I was wondering if we had the C8C on a stand for a while - before getting the BX8C - the foam/rubber had allready slightly compressed from the weight.

I just tightened the top frame screws too much... And then did not manage to screw top and bottom frame together.

 

[badtimeticket]

Hmm, is the bottom covered with some foam? Is it easily removable? I'm wondering about using museum putty or blue tac to secure this to a stand better.