Ascilab C8C V1.1 Measurement Update

[goat76]

Presume with the update we would now listen on axis?

As I see it, there is more than one parameter you can control with the toe-in setup. It's all about finding a good compromise between the perceived high-frequency balance, being able to fine-trim and optimize a distinct-sounding phantom center, and somewhat control the room reflections. If one of these parameters is too dominant over the others, it may force you to set the speakers up at a certain toe-in to prevent that, which may prevent you from finding a good-sounding, balanced compromise across the other parameters.

With the update, I think you will have a better chance of finding what toe-in setup works best for your liking and your listing environment, all those parameters considered.

 

[kharan]

As I see it, there is more than one parameter you can control with the toe-in setup. It's all about finding a good compromise between the perceived high-frequency balance, being able to fine-trim and optimize a distinct-sounding phantom center, and somewhat control the room reflections. If one of these parameters is too dominant over the others, it may force you to set the speakers up at a certain toe-in to prevent that, which may prevent you from finding a good-sounding, balanced compromise across the other parameters.

With the update, I think you will have a better chance of finding what toe-in setup works best for your liking and your listing environment, all those parameters considered.

Ironically, the phantom centre is never an issue, out of curiosity I've done everything from having the speakers point slightly ahead of me (very strong toe-in) to the speakers pointing outwards slightly towards the side walls (toe-out relative to front facing), the phantom centre changes in its sonic but character it's always there and distinct.

 

[kharan]

do you mean the master level on wake in HFD? if so, I left it at the default +7db for AES but when I switched to coax I had to bring it down to +3db as it was too loud otherwise

Yes that, or the number in the first window of the HFD software, I assume you don't have it plugged in USB all the time.

Just curious about how loud people listen, that is all. And I was only asking for the digital input since the output voltage of analog devices are not really consistent from one device to another.

+7 dB would be in excess of any SPL output I would use on a reasonable basis, 0 dB would be a setting that I would use if I wanted to never touch master volume again, and -8 dB is the setting I'm using if I want to max out SN ratio at a comfortably loud level.

 

[AsciLab]

Presume with the update we would now listen on axis?

At least there won’t be a harsh sound at on axis.

Ironically, the phantom centre is never an issue, out of curiosity I've done everything from having the speakers point slightly ahead of me (very strong toe-in) to the speakers pointing outwards slightly towards the side walls (toe-out relative to front facing), the phantom centre changes in its sonic but character it's always there and distinct.

That’s the advantage what our waveguide has. At top frequency all of AsciLab speakers keep same SPL in 30 deg. That band usually drops steeply when the speaker doesn’t aim to the listener. It leads to lose the pin point imaging. So AsciLab speaker can keep the sharp phantom center while adjusting the sound width by the toe in and out.

 

[Linnie]

Anyway, I wonder why Ascilab didn't flatten this boost in the first place but instead recommends toeing out the speakers ?

Good to see company has come to the same conclusion. They listen to their (potential) customers.

 

[829]

Given the excellent spacial measurement results, would some C8C owner care to give the CTXMatrix – Advanced Crosstalk Cancellation Plugin a try (it's free but read the info) and let me know of their experience with it?

Thanks in advance!

 

[CB89]

@AsciLab
I'd love to have a 1k active speaker if you're exploring a new product area.
(It doesn't need to play extremely low frequencies, otherwise there will be too much complaining )

Anyway, very impressive speakers and a beautiful design. A German distributor would be nice too.

 

[Esprit]

Now they are Genelec killers.

It depends on which Genelec product you are comparing it to.

 

[Svensson]

I recently reviewed the Ascilab C8C active speaker:

I found the performance excellent but noticed a slight boost from 4 to 5 kHz which I easily corrected with EQ. Members also noticed that the directivity was not as constant in some area.

Company was quick to revise the equalization and crossover to better optimize both factors. Company will be able to update already sold speakers using remote access and Hypex FHD software so anyone wanting the upgrade, can easily get it.

Let's see the difference starting with our spinorama frequency response:
View attachment 519691

Given how good the response was before, the difference is hard to see so let me overlay the two on axis responses:
View attachment 519692
Ignoring the slight level shift due to different placement on Klippel NFS, we see that the small boost in 4 to 5 kHz is essentially gone (black).

Differences are harder to see in beam width but here it is:
View attachment 519693

It is more visible to my eye in the contour plot:
View attachment 519694

Notice how there is better matching below 1 kHz which has the nice bonus of having wider dispersion. This should improve spatial effects a bit.

Vertical response has not changed:
View attachment 519695

I was pleasantly surprised by the effect on predicted in-room response
View attachment 519696
Now has a perfect slope.

Since this was such a minor variation, I did not try to run the rest of the tests.

I have enclosed the spinorama measurements and would be curious what impact it has on preference score.

Conclusions
Beauty of an active speaker shows up here in how easy it is to refine the response of the speaker. Ascilab is to be commended for jumping quickly to optimize these two small variations. The combination of the two changes makes the C8C even more perfect than it was before.

NOTE: My company, testedaudio.com, is the exclusive distributor for Ascilab products in North America. While objective tests remain the same as for any other speaker, subjective remarks may have business bias.
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

@amirm your reviews, and forum member participation, have propelled this software paradigm shift. Ascilabs speed of response and improvement puts other electronics manufacturers on notice.
We've already watched the objective hardware development explosion on your watch, now this.

 

[daniboun]

I'd love to have a 1k active speaker if you're exploring a new product area.

The Palmer Orbit 11 is under €800 / unit...

 

[Hart]

Is there a technical advantage to running a three different amps to power woofers, mid, tweeter? Would certainly be more cost effective to use one single larger amp?

 

[Hart]

@amirm your reviews, and forum member participation, have propelled this software paradigm shift. Ascilabs speed of response and improvement puts other electronics manufacturers on notice.
We've already watched the objective hardware development explosion on your watch, now this.

Yes, this synergy between designer and end user is fairly unique, absolutely makes for a better product. There is something about being heard which is really compelling as well, great work.

 

[illusonic]

The Palmer Orbit 11 is under €800 / unit...

Now Ascilab can try to do better and deliver
“Best performance in its price range, lowest price for its performance.”

 

[Purité Audio]

Better in which respect they appear to me to be doing pretty well.
Keith

 

[Mort]

Is there a technical advantage to running a three different amps to power woofers, mid, tweeter? Would certainly be more cost effective to use one single larger amp?

Yes, this design is what permits the active crossovers to come after the amp.

 

[illusonic]

Better in which respect they appear to me to be doing pretty well.
Keith

That's what they appear to me as well. But there is always room for improvement. And din't you write about one-note-bass?

 

[Matt_Holland]

Yes, this design is what permits the active crossovers to come after the amp.

You mean before the amps

 

[Purité Audio]

That's what they appear to me as well. But there is always room for improvement. And din't you write about one-note-bass?

In the Orbits yes.
Keith

 

[Mort]

You mean before the amps

Thx yes. Edited

 

[illusonic]

In the Orbits yes.
Keith

Now we're on the same page although I don't see the connection between THD and one-note bass.